Guns and alcohol at Homeowner's meetings?

[Guest Susan Bradburn]

We have a Homeowner's Association for the resident owned mobile home park I live in. Members of our Board of Director's consume alcohol and one carries a gun at meetings that involve the whole home ownership . He has a concealed weapons permit, however he straps it to leg in plain sight.

I was hoping that Robert's Rules had some opinion on the correctness and professionalism of this behavior. Any help you could give in this matter would greatly appreciated.

Susan

[J. J.]

We have a Homeowner's Association for the resident owned mobile home park I live in. Members of our Board of Director's consume alcohol and one carries a gun at meetings that involve the whole home ownership . He has a concealed weapons permit, however he straps it to leg in plain sight.

I was hoping that Robert's Rules had some opinion on the correctness and professionalism of this behavior. Any help you could give in this matter would greatly appreciated.

Susan

Neither violates any rule in RONR.

[Rob Elsman]

We have a Homeowner's Association for the resident owned mobile home park I live in. Members of our Board of Director's consume alcohol and one carries a gun at meetings that involve the whole home ownership . He has a concealed weapons permit, however he straps it to leg in plain sight.

I was hoping that Robert's Rules had some opinion on the correctness and professionalism of this behavior. Any help you could give in this matter would greatly appreciated.

Susan

As long as he has a copy of RONR, 10th ed., in his vest pocket, it all sounds good to me.

[Guest Susan Bradburn]

As long as he has a copy of RONR, 10th ed., in his vest pocket, it all sounds good to me.

He does not. He is a Timothy McVay type, and etiquette is surely the last thing on his mind.

Thank you for your prompt response,

Susan

[Rob Elsman]

He does not. He is a Timothy McVay type, and etiquette is surely the last thing on his mind.

Thank you for your prompt response,

Susan

Maybe you could buy him a copy for a gift.

[Guest Susan Bradburn]

Maybe you could buy him a copy for a gift.

*smiling* yes, perhaps, however he may shoot me. The exposed weapon is definitely an effective scare tactic.

Thanks again

[J. J.]

*smiling* yes, perhaps, however he may shoot me. The exposed weapon is definitely an effective scare tactic.

Thanks again

Not is some organizations.

[Guest stature]

How about proposing a new standing rule to prohibit guns being brought

into the meeting room?

[Chris Harrison]

How about proposing a new standing rule to prohibit guns being brought

into the meeting room?

Sounds like a good start. However, I would note that having booze and bullets in the same room is a REALLY BAD IDEA!! You might want to add no drinking during the meeting to that standing rule which the organization would hopefully adopt (unless they are a hybrid of NRA and Toastmasters ) .

[David A Foulkes]

"In most societies it is understood that members are required to be of honorable character and reputation, and certain types of associations may have particular codes of ethics to enforce." (RONR 10th Ed., p. 624 l. 3-6)

"A society has the right to determine who may be present at its meetings and to control its hall while meetings are in progress;" (RONR 10th Ed. p. 625 l. 11-13)

While there may be no specific rule included in The Book that addresses your situation directly, I'd opine that RONR does support your position. You should be allowed to meet without the undue discomfort of having to deal with armed drunks, and the pressure that may put upon you (and others) as you exercise your rights as a member. Whether enough members feel the same as you, and have the ability to enforce such "codes of ethics" as you may be able to incorporate into your governing rules, is a question you'll have to answer.

[J. J.]

"In most societies it is understood that members are required to be of honorable character and reputation, and certain types of associations may have particular codes of ethics to enforce." (RONR 10th Ed., p. 624 l. 3-6)

"A society has the right to determine who may be present at its meetings and to control its hall while meetings are in progress;" (RONR 10th Ed. p. 625 l. 11-13)

While there may be no specific rule included in The Book that addresses your situation directly, I'd opine that RONR does support your position. You should be allowed to meet without the undue discomfort of having to deal with armed drunks, and the pressure that may put upon you (and others) as you exercise your rights as a member. Whether enough members feel the same as you, and have the ability to enforce such "codes of ethics" as you may be able to incorporate into your governing rules, is a question you'll have to answer.

RONR supports the position that the society is in control of the meeting area. It would be up to the majority to limit the members ability to consume alcohol or carry a firearm. As indicated, many organization, including ones of I am both a current and former member of, would find this to be a limitation.

[Tim Wynn]

How about proposing a new standing rule to prohibit guns being brought

into the meeting room?

There's no rule in RONR that prohibits an organization from violating state and federal law, so long as the rule being violated is not parliamentary in nature. The second amendment to the U.S Constitution and state laws authorizing the exercise of the right it guarantees are certainly not of a parliamentary nature, so RONR won't stand in your way in an attempt to break them. An attorney should be consulted for questions about the legality of depriving members of federal and state-granted rights.

[Tim Wynn]

He does not. He is a Timothy McVay type, and etiquette is surely the last thing on his mind.

Thank you for your prompt response,

Susan

Characterizing him in this way is tantamount to calling him a mass murderer, yet it's the gun you want to ban from the meeting. Personally, I'd prefer to do disassociate with the villain. If he has threatened you in any way, call the police... but, be warned, they wear their guns in plain sight, too.

If he has a concealed weapons license, as you say, then your issue is with the state that issued the license and any states that honor it, not RONR.

[Guest SJG]

Characterizing him in this way is tantamount to calling him a mass murderer, yet it's the gun you want to ban from the meeting. Personally, I'd prefer to do disassociate with the villain. If he has threatened you in any way, call the police... but, be warned, they wear their guns in plain sight, too.

If he has a concealed weapons license, as you say, then your issue is with the state that issued the license and any states that honor it, not RONR.

Way off topic, I fear the wrath, but it wouldn't surprise me if "no impairment while carrying" is a condition of a concealed carry permit, a check with an attorney or law enforcement might be in order. That is, if the character in question is really getting loaded, and not just sipping a beer

[J. J.]

Way off topic, I fear the wrath, but it wouldn't surprise me if "no impairment while carrying" is a condition of a concealed carry permit, a check with an attorney or law enforcement might be in order. That is, if the character in question is really getting loaded, and not just sipping a beer

As far as I know, no.

Certainly the assembly may create rules of decorum and determine that wearing a gun, and drinking alcohol violates that decorum. Do not rely on RONR to say so, however.

As indicated, drinking, and wearing a gun are perfectly acceptable in some organizations. In others, it would not be. It is up to the assembly to adopt a rule on it.

[Josh Martin]

He has a concealed weapons permit, however he straps it to leg in plain sight.

This is not my understanding of what "concealed" means, but I'm not a lawyer. You might wish to look into what legal repercussions there may be for the member. RONR has nothing to say about conceal and carry, but your state's laws seem to have something on the subject.

I was hoping that Robert's Rules had some opinion on the correctness and professionalism of this behavior.

No, but the assembly is free to adopt standing rules on the subject of firearms and/or alcohol.

He does not. He is a Timothy McVay type, and etiquette is surely the last thing on his mind.

*smiling* yes, perhaps, however he may shoot me. The exposed weapon is definitely an effective scare tactic.

If you have serious concerns about the safety of the assembly's members, it may be wise to provide for a security or police presence at the meetings. The assembly could also determine that the behavior is cause for disciplinary action - see RONR, 10th ed., Ch. XX for details.

While there may be no specific rule included in The Book that addresses your situation directly, I'd opine that RONR does support your position...

Well, the original poster's position appears to be that the member should not be able to come to the meeting intoxicated while carrying a firearm. RONR has nothing to say on this one way or the other, but it does support the assembly's right to adopt rules on the subject and/or discipline the member.

There's no rule in RONR that prohibits an organization from violating state and federal law, so long as the rule being violated is not parliamentary in nature. The second amendment to the U.S Constitution and state laws authorizing the exercise of the right it guarantees are certainly not of a parliamentary nature, so RONR won't stand in your way in an attempt to break them. An attorney should be consulted for questions about the legality of depriving members of federal and state-granted rights.

I certainly concur with the last sentence of this response, but the rest of it seems to weigh too heavily toward the suggestion that the proposed rule would violate state or federal law. I think we should let the lawyers advise the assembly on that question rather than making our own assumptions.

Way off topic, I fear the wrath, but it wouldn't surprise me if "no impairment while carrying" is a condition of a concealed carry permit, a check with an attorney or law enforcement might be in order. That is, if the character in question is really getting loaded, and not just sipping a beer

All I'll say is that laws regarding personal firearms (like many laws) vary considerably from state to state, and I am not nearly qualified enough to comment on the firearm laws of any of them. Let's stick with a suggestion that the poster consult a lawyer and leave it at that.