Rob Elsman Posted May 9, 2024 at 07:23 AM Report Share Posted May 9, 2024 at 07:23 AM On 1/29/2023 at 6:56 PM, Shmuel Gerber said: It's still a good read, though. ...but the answer is still the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted May 9, 2024 at 12:10 PM Report Share Posted May 9, 2024 at 12:10 PM On 5/8/2024 at 11:07 PM, Guest markfromlegal said: Hi all: Reanimating this question, as I have been in several organizations (ecclesiastical and fraternities) that follow this procedure religiously (no pun intended). Couldn't there be a special rule of order that authorizes this exact procedure? If there was not a requirement in the bylaws that vote be taken by ballot, yes. However, this rule: A. Is unnecessary. B. Could create a problem if worded incorrectly. A rule that the secretary shall cast the vote might be worded, incorrectly, to give the secretary sole discretion to vote how he feel fit to chose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted May 9, 2024 at 06:02 PM Report Share Posted May 9, 2024 at 06:02 PM On 5/8/2024 at 11:07 PM, Guest markfromlegal said: Hi all: Reanimating this question, as I have been in several organizations (ecclesiastical and fraternities) that follow this procedure religiously (no pun intended). Couldn't there be a special rule of order that authorizes this exact procedure? Yes. RONR permits passing special rules of order, no matter how ill advised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake Savory Posted May 10, 2024 at 12:34 AM Report Share Posted May 10, 2024 at 12:34 AM I know for a fact I have read in RONR that this out of order. I cannot find it in the current edition. Was that rule in another edition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted May 11, 2024 at 04:06 AM Report Share Posted May 11, 2024 at 04:06 AM On 5/9/2024 at 8:34 PM, Drake Savory said: I know for a fact I have read in RONR that this out of order. I cannot find it in the current edition. Was that rule in another edition? Even if it were in there, it would be superseded by a duly adopted Special Rule of Order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted May 12, 2024 at 07:15 PM Report Share Posted May 12, 2024 at 07:15 PM (edited) On 5/8/2024 at 10:07 PM, Guest markfromlegal said: Hi all: Reanimating this question, as I have been in several organizations (ecclesiastical and fraternities) that follow this procedure religiously (no pun intended). Couldn't there be a special rule of order that authorizes this exact procedure? As a general matter, a special rule of order could be adopted to authorize this procedure. If, however, the bylaws require a ballot vote for particular matters (such as elections), and the bylaws do not provide an exception in the circumstance that there is only one candidate for the office, then a special rule of order is not sufficient, because a special rule of order cannot conflict with the bylaws. (And because, as has been noted several times, this isn't a real ballot vote, and therefore does not satisfy the requirement in the bylaws to hold a ballot vote.) To the extent the organization wishes to adopt such a procedure, it would need to amend the bylaws. I also must reiterate again that the procedure is (at best) a complete waste of time and should not be authorized under any circumstances. On 5/9/2024 at 7:34 PM, Drake Savory said: I know for a fact I have read in RONR that this out of order. I cannot find it in the current edition. Was that rule in another edition? It's still in there. "Whenever a vote is to be taken by ballot, it is not in order to move that one person—the secretary, for example—cast the ballot of the assembly." RONR (12th ed.) 45:22 Edited May 12, 2024 at 07:18 PM by Josh Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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