Objection to the consideration of a main motion

[mikalac]

What is the very last point in time when this Objection is in order?

 

RR says this motion must be raised before any debate. p.267.

In Brief say the same thing with different words. p.119.

RR for Dummies says, "After discussion begins, it is too late..." p.176

PL says "but before it has been debated ..." p.154

Notes and Comments on Robert's Rules say, "the objection must be made before debate has begun" p.80.

 

Now suppose that the main motion has been made, seconded, and stated by the chair, but there is an interlude of a few seconds where no member has begun to speak in debate on the main motion.

 

If the objector during this silent interlude rises and makes the Objection, is it in order?

 

Corollary question: The Standard code of Parliamentary Procedure does not include the Objection in its list of Incidental Motions, at least as far as I can see. What shall I conclude from this omission? It's not a part of their Rules or Order, or just not important enough to discuss it in that text?

 

Thanks for your help.

[George Mervosh]

What is the very last point in time when this Objection is in order?

 

Now suppose that the main motion has been made, seconded, and stated by the chair, but there is an interlude of a few seconds where no member has begun to speak in debate on the main motion.

 

If the objector during this silent interlude rises and makes the Objection, is it in order?

 

Yes.

[Dan Honemann]

Corollary question: The Standard code of Parliamentary Procedure does not include the Objection in its list of Incidental Motions, at least as far as I can see. What shall I conclude from this omission? It's not a part of their Rules or Order, or just not important enough to discuss it in that text?

 

Thanks for your help.

 

You will need to go elsewhere for the answer to this question. Try the American Institute of Parliamentarians; its their book.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

What is the very last point in time when this Objection is in order?

 

... before any debate.

... says the same thing [debate]

"After [debate] begins, it is too late..."

...before it has been debated ..."

... before debate has begun"

 

Now suppose that the main motion has been made, seconded, and stated by the chair,

but there is an interlude of a few seconds where no member has begun to speak in debate on the main motion.

 

If the objector during this silent interlude rises and makes the Objection, is it in order?

 

I think you are confusing the ACTION with the TIME.

 

Review.

 

MM is moved

MM is seconded.

MM is stated by the chair.

 

<< press the PAUSE button >>

 

Quiz time

Q. What is the status of DEBATE?

Q. Has debate begun?

 

Answer: No.

There is a difference between the TIME FOR DEBATE, (which is where the PAUSE button freezes the action) versus THE ACT OF DEBATE itself.

 

The rule refers to the ACT OF DEBATE.

The rule does not refer to the TIME OF DEBATE.

The TIME may have started, but the ACT has not started.

Therefore, the motion (Object to Consideration) is in order at that pause, because debate itself has not "begun".

[George Mervosh]

 The provisions in RONR about how to use it are very clear.  There has been no debate until someone starts debating.

 

Since Mr. Jones is trying to very precise (a good thing), RONR also notes "or any subsidiary motion except Lay on the Table has been stated by the chair; thereafter, consideration of the main question has begun and it is too late to object."  RONR (11th ed.), p.267 (SDC#1)

 

In reality (though you may not see it often) no debate needs to begin before consideration of the main question begins.

[mikalac]

I think you are confusing the ACTION with the TIME.

 

Review.

 

MM is moved

MM is seconded.

MM is stated by the chair.

 

<< press the PAUSE button >>

 

Quiz time

Q. What is the status of DEBATE?

Q. Has debate begun?

 

Answer: No.

There is a difference between the TIME FOR DEBATE, (which is where the PAUSE button freezes the action) versus THE ACT OF DEBATE itself.

 

The rule refers to the ACT OF DEBATE.

The rule does not refer to the TIME OF DEBATE.

The TIME may have started, but the ACT has not started.

Therefore, the motion (Object to Consideration) is in order at that pause, because debate itself has not "begun".

You've hit the proverbial nail. I raised the question because it was not clear in my mind that the works cited were referring to the time or the act. Now I know.

[Gary Novosielski]

That's really the only time it could be moved, isn't it?   It certainly can't be moved later, but perhaps it could be moved earlier?

 

Well, clearly it can't be moved before the motion is even made, so that's too early, since there is nothing to object to yet.

After the motion is made, but not yet seconded, it's still too early, since it may never even get a second, and therefore nothing to object to.

After it is seconded, it's still a bit too early.  You might not even have heard the motion yet, and the chair may still rule it out of order.

After it is stated, the motion Object to Consideration is in order, until "Consideration" of the question actually begins.

After consideration begins it's too late to object to consideration, since it's already happened.

[Josh Martin]

That's really the only time it could be moved, isn't it?   It certainly can't be moved later, but perhaps it could be moved earlier?

 

Well, clearly it can't be moved before the motion is even made, so that's too early, since there is nothing to object to yet.

After the motion is made, but not yet seconded, it's still too early, since it may never even get a second, and therefore nothing to object to.

After it is seconded, it's still a bit too early.  You might not even have heard the motion yet, and the chair may still rule it out of order.

After it is stated, the motion Object to Consideration is in order, until "Consideration" of the question actually begins.

After consideration begins it's too late to object to consideration, since it's already happened.

 

The motion Objection to the Consideration of a Question may be moved before the motion it is applied to has been stated or seconded.