New business items from the floor

[Pastor Tim]

At an upcoming conference, our Board of Directors will be bringing four items of business:  budget, ballot, and 2 items of new business.  Three of these (the budget, ballot and one of the new items) are routine and will be approved without difficulty.  The fourth is a controversial bylaw change, and will require a 2/3rd majority to approve.  Prior notice has been given, so all is well there.  There will also be an agenda, which will be approved at the start of the meeting.

There is some thought that the controversial item may not achieve the necessary 2/3rd majority for approval.  No real harm would come if this happens (other than some people being upset); our organization has polity in place (that this new item would replace) so we can continue to function under the current system.  The Board could choose to bring another item on this subject at our next (yearly) meeting. 

But there is some thought that if the item the Board presents is not approved, someone might make a motion from the floor and move another proposal for this bylaw change.  Is this permissible?  And if so, how?

It seems to me that the answer here (at least for our organization) is "no."  Every item of business that we get under normal circumstances either originates from our Board of Directors (always the ballot and budget, and most bylaw changes) or originates from one of our member congregations and passes through the Board of Directors and Conference Officers (these are generally questions of clarification on relevant issues of the day); the Conference Officers finalize the meeting agenda a number of weeks prior to the conference and send out the booklets with the items of business included.

But it will be good to hear from those more fluent in RROO than I.

[Hieu H. Huynh]

Perhaps the bylaws amendment could be amended so that it is not as big a change as proposed.

[Joshua Katz]

This will depend on your bylaws.  As far as RONR is concerned, the bylaw proposal may be amended while pending, within the scope of notice, but a new motion cannot be made without notice if notice is required under your rules for amending the bylaws.  

Your bylaws may contain rules about how business gets before the assembly, but in RONR there is certainly no requirement that business items come from the board.  The board, in fact, isn't meeting when the members are meeting, and isn't present as a board.  Under RONR, anyone can make motions.  If you have rules restricting how business gets to your assembly, your organization will need to interpret those.

[Pastor Tim]

5 minutes ago, Godelfan said:

This will depend on your bylaws.  As far as RONR is concerned, the bylaw proposal may be amended while pending, within the scope of notice, but a new motion cannot be made without notice if notice is required under your rules for amending the bylaws.  

Your bylaws may contain rules about how business gets before the assembly, but in RONR there is certainly no requirement that business items come from the board.  The board, in fact, isn't meeting when the members are meeting, and isn't present as a board.  Under RONR, anyone can make motions.  If you have rules restricting how business gets to your assembly, your organization will need to interpret those.

Assuming (for the moment) that the item is defeated; our Moderator would simply go on to the next item on the approved agenda.  What would be the mechanism for someone to make a motion to take another shot at the bylaw change?

[Joshua Katz]

Well, again, I'm not sure someone can take another shot at the bylaw change if you require notice for amendments.  However, that aside, they could move to suspend the rules to take up the item of business, or move to amend the agenda.  It also depends on what exactly the agenda says - if time on the item has not expired and the motion to be made is relevant to the item, it can be introduced.  An agenda doesn't indicate the exact motion, or number of motions, to be introduced.

[Pastor Tim]

Thanks.  Amending the agenda would be the way to go, for us.  But I need to double check the bylaws--this should fail the prior notice clause.

One more thought, though:  Roberts Rules requires "reasonable notice" for things such as this.  Assuming that our bylaws are fuzzy here (as I suspect they may be) as parliamentarian, would it be fair to suggest to our Moderator that bringing up another attempt fails the "reasonable notice" test?  The delegate body could certainly overrule the Moderator, should they so choose.

[Joshua Katz]

RONR does not require "reasonable notice" for amending bylaws.  It says on p. 592 that the bylaws should contain rules for their amendment, and that such rules should, at least, require notice and a 2/3 vote.  It further says that these are the default rules if the bylaws do not contain rules for their amendment.  So, if your bylaws are silent on the matter, notice is required.  In your case, this means, pp. 121-22, that the exact content of the motion must be included in the call to the meeting (but it can, of course, still be amended within scope of notice).  Now here is where reasonableness comes in - the call is to be sent to members a reasonable time before the meeting, if the bylaws do not specify something more precise (and, according to RONR, they should.)  But the question of reasonableness only arises once notice is required, which in turn depends on your bylaws.  If your bylaws are silent, then notice is required.  If a motion is introduced at the meeting for the first time, we need not occupy ourselves with questions of reasonable notice - cleary it does not have notice.

A motion would only fail the reasonable notice test if that test applied - i.e. notice was required, the organization meets less often than quarterly or no notice was given at the previous meeting, and the bylaws do not give any specific directions for the issuing of the call to meeting with notice included.  If, under those facts, notice was sent, say, a day before a meeting of people from around the country, to be held in Texas, then I would rule that the notice was not reasonable.  

[Bruce Lages]

3 hours ago, Godelfan said:

However, that aside, they could move to suspend the rules to take up the item of business, or move to amend the agenda.  .

I don't believe that suspend the rules is applicable here, since prior notice is a rule protecting absentees, and RONR is clear that rules protecting absentees can not be suspended (p. 263, ll.29-31).

[Joshua Katz]

15 minutes ago, Bruce Lages said:

I don't believe that suspend the rules is applicable here, since prior notice is a rule protecting absentees, and RONR is clear that rules protecting absentees can not be suspended (p. 263, ll.29-31).

Suspend the rules would not be applicable if we were dealing with prior notice.  However, here I had set that concern aside, and was answering a question that was just about how to introduce a motion not on the agenda.

[Dan Honemann]

18 hours ago, Pastor Tim said:

Assuming (for the moment) that the item is defeated; our Moderator would simply go on to the next item on the approved agenda.  What would be the mechanism for someone to make a motion to take another shot at the bylaw change?

At any time later on during the session (on the same day the vote was taken or the next day if the session lasts more than one day), any member who voted against the proposed amendment could move to reconsider the vote.

The motion to Reconsider is discussed in detail on page 315-335 of RONR (11th ed.).