Motion made with incorrect information

[Guest President Scott]

hello,

had a motion made and carried at a recent meeting.   Later we found out that some of the key points (at least 2) in the motion that made the motion actions look good or more desirable to do not true.  For example a 25% match on a deposit which we later found out there is no match available.   there was no foul play involved just poor communications/lack of research.  

many at the meeting said "hey that sounds great lets do it" based on the misinformation

how do/should we to proceed with this motion?   is it invalid?  should I pose the information for the motion to be reconsidered and/or amended?  should it be rescinded?  other?

thank you. 

[George Mervosh]

Assuming it is still applicable it can be rescinded or amended.  See RONR (11th ed.), p. 305ff

[Richard Brown]

The motion appears to have been validly adopted and is valid and in force.  The motion can be rescinded (or amended) by using the motion to amend or rescind something previously adopted. If previous notice of the motion is given, it can be adopted by a majority vote. Without previous notice, it requires a two thirds vote or the vote of a majority of the entire membership.

[Guest President Scott]

I presume since the minutes reflect the motion and the motion includes false  information we will need to at least amend the minutes regardless of any action(s) to the motion itself?   or we should put the motion up for review, rescind, amendment  and amend/correct  the minutes that way?  

Thank you

 

[George Mervosh]

I'm not sure how reasoning/false information entered into the motion unless it was in a preamble of sorts, but you can't change history.  The minutes must contain the exact language of the motion as it was put for a vote.  

Just worry about rescinding or amending it, if that's the end goal.

 

Edited December 20, 2016 at 10:14 PM by George Mervosh

[Richard Brown]

I agree with Mr. Mervosh.  The minutes normally should  not contain anything about the discussion or the reasons for the motion unless it was a lengthy and probably written motion in the form of a resolution with "whereas" clauses stating the reasons for the motion.  If it was a simple motion to do something and the erroneous information was stated in debate, that does not go into the minutes.  Only the text of the motion as adopted goes into the minutes, along with the name of the mover.

[Guest President Scott]

Understood.  yes it was a simple motion and part of the "sale" of the motion to the group the false information was given during the discussion.   So it sounds like yes, we should fix the minutes to not include the information (right or wrong) as part of the motion itself (minutes have not been approved yet).    then tackle the issue of the error giving wrong justification to the motion and a misinformed vote.   I'll probably present the correct information and let the group decide how to proceed.    Its not a topic that is the end of the world (others will make it politically the end of the world though) but it still makes NO financial sense to proceed even if the there was no false information presented. 

thank again. 

[Kim Goldsworthy]

2 hours ago, Guest President Scott said:

So it sounds like yes, we should fix the minutes to not include the information (right or wrong) as part of the motion itself (minutes have not been approved yet) then tackle the issue of the error giving wrong justification to the motion and a misinformed vote.

Don't do that.

You don't want to taint the "paper trail" from (a.) error, to (b.) correction.

The minutes should contain what transpired in that meeting, even if there were errors.

By allowing a solid paper trail, that will allow a future reader of the minutes (the two sets) to see that there was a rationale behind the sudden change of heart.

[George Mervosh]

31 minutes ago, Kim Goldsworthy said:

Don't do that.

You don't want to taint the "paper trail" from (a.) error, to (b.) correction.

The minutes should contain what transpired in that meeting, even if there were errors.

By allowing a solid paper trail, that will allow a future reader of the minutes (the two sets) to see that there was a rationale behind the sudden change of heart.

So leave the debate and reasoning in the minutes, even if it's not part of the motion that was put and adopted at that meeting?   As Gary would say, Oh Kim, our last quarrel of 2016.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

As you know, debate/reasoning is not to be included in the minutes.

However, for those organizations which do include debate/reasoning in their minutes, then the minutes should continue to reflect those bad, erroneous debates and reasons.

Without those bad debates/reasons, then the minutes of the next meeting will not have a tie to what-is-being-corrected.

***
The next meeting meeting's minutes will say, for example:

   • The budget was off by a factor of ten. -- 20,000, not 2,000.

   • There is no matching fund. That was an assumption which proved to be unfounded.

(etc.)

***

And, again, 99% of such problems would be avoided if organizations followed the recommendation of The Book, i.e., to not include "commentary", "opinion", or "loosely-formed ideas" in one's minutes.

[Joshua Katz]

So they should not include what is said at the meeting, except that, if they do include what is said at the meeting, then they should include what is said at the meeting?

[Josh Martin]

5 hours ago, Guest President Scott said:

Understood.  yes it was a simple motion and part of the "sale" of the motion to the group the false information was given during the discussion.   So it sounds like yes, we should fix the minutes to not include the information (right or wrong) as part of the motion itself (minutes have not been approved yet).    then tackle the issue of the error giving wrong justification to the motion and a misinformed vote.   I'll probably present the correct information and let the group decide how to proceed.    Its not a topic that is the end of the world (others will make it politically the end of the world though) but it still makes NO financial sense to proceed even if the there was no false information presented. 

Was this information part of the motion or not? If it was, keep it in the minutes. If it wasn't, get rid of it. Information which is said in debate should not be included in the minutes, regardless of whether the information is accurate. The minutes are a record of what was done, not what was said.

The motion itself should remain in the minutes in any event. The motion may be rescinded.

2 hours ago, Kim Goldsworthy said:

As you know, debate/reasoning is not to be included in the minutes.

However, for those organizations which do include debate/reasoning in their minutes, then the minutes should continue to reflect those bad, erroneous debates and reasons.

Without those bad debates/reasons, then the minutes of the next meeting will not have a tie to what-is-being-corrected.

***
The next meeting meeting's minutes will say, for example:

   • The budget was off by a factor of ten. -- 20,000, not 2,000.

   • There is no matching fund. That was an assumption which proved to be unfounded.

(etc.)

***

And, again, 99% of such problems would be avoided if organizations followed the recommendation of The Book, i.e., to not include "commentary", "opinion", or "loosely-formed ideas" in one's minutes.

I strongly disagree. If the assembly is putting unnecessary information in the minutes, this should be rectified immediately, including any minutes which have been taken but not yet approved. If it is necessary to record this information for some reason, it should be kept in a separate document.

The minutes of the next meeting should not say anything about how the budget was off.