Elections

[PresidentM]

We have in our bylaws and constitution that no one may be ELECTED to TWO offices at once.  We have several members nominated to dual positions in upcoming elections.  What is the procedure here?  Can the candidates choose after election? If so is there a new election for the office they don't select or does the person with next amount of votes become elected?  Do you vote again and on same night or schedule new meeting.  We've never had this happen in our organization before.

[Hieu H. Huynh]

Don't elect someone to two offices at once.

[Dan Honemann]

"When voting for multiple offices by a single ballot, the members are not able to take the result for one office into account when voting for another office. For this reason, a candidate is never deemed elected to more than one office by a single ballot unless the motion or rules governing the election specifically provide for such simultaneous election. When there is no such provision, a candidate who receives a majority for more than one office on a single ballot must, if present, choose which one of the offices he will accept; if he is absent, the assembly decides by vote the office to be assigned to him. The assembly then ballots again to fill the other office(s). (The assembly is free, however, to elect the same person to another office on a subsequent ballot, unless the bylaws prohibit a person from holding both offices simultaneously.) "  (RONR, 11th ed., p. 440)

[Richard Brown]

Well, shucks.  Dan beat me to the punch.  I saw PresidentM's post and Hieu's response on my cell phone and thought, "Aw, C'mon, Hieu.  You can do better than that".  I came into my office so I could do a copy and paste of the RONR rule on the  subject from my CD ROM version.  I fired up the computer, found the provision, copied it, logged into the forum again from my computer so I could paste the answer and BAMMO!  The esteemed Mr. H had already posted the provision!  Oh, well. 

[PresidentM]

Ok well our bylaws state that you can't be elected to the two offices simultaneously.  Our elections are done by australian ballot and/or in person at polls.  That creates another question of how  could the mail in voters have an opportunity for the next vote if no one will know result until tellers finish at the polling place?

 

[Richard Brown]

24 minutes ago, PresidentM said:

Ok well our bylaws state that you can't be elected to the two offices simultaneously.  Our elections are done by australian ballot and/or in person at polls.  That creates another question of how  could the mail in voters have an opportunity for the next vote if no one will know result until tellers finish at the polling place?

That is the problem with combining absentee voting with in person voting and is why RONR strongly advises against it as in this language from page 423:

"ABSENTEE VOTING. It is a fundamental principle of parliamentary law that the right to vote is limited to the members of an organization who are actually present at the time the vote is taken in a regular or properly called meeting, although it should be noted that a member need not be present when the question is put. Exceptions to this rule must be expressly stated in the bylaws. Such possible exceptions include: (a) voting by postal mail, e-mail, or fax, and (b) proxy voting. An organization should never adopt a bylaw permitting a question to be decided by a voting procedure in which the votes of persons who attend a meeting are counted together with ballots mailed in by absentees. The votes of those present could be affected by debate, by amendments, and perhaps by the need for repeated balloting, while those absent would be unable to adjust their votes to reflect these factors. Consequently, the absentee ballots would in most cases be on a somewhat different question than that on which those present were voting, leading to confusion, unfairness, and inaccuracy in determining the result. If there is a possibility of any uncertainty about who will be entitled to vote, this [page 424] should be spelled out unambiguously and strictly enforced to avoid unfairness in close votes. "  (Emphasis added)

[Gary Novosielski]

28 minutes ago, PresidentM said:

Ok well our bylaws state that you can't be elected to the two offices simultaneously.  Our elections are done by australian ballot and/or in person at polls.  That creates another question of how  could the mail in voters have an opportunity for the next vote if no one will know result until tellers finish at the polling place?

 

That's a good question.  RONR has no answer because it warns against having rules that permit mixing together of in-person and absentee voting.

Yes, you're correct that the problem is in your bylaws.

[PresidentM]

Yes sirs it is a problem.

[jstackpo]

How indeed?  A very good question. 

Do your bylaws authorize absentee (e.g., main in) votes?  If so then it is up to you to answer your own question.  RONR strongly advises against "mixing" in-meeting (in-person) votes and absentee votes for just the reason you suggest.  See p. 423, line 16ff.

Sheesh, ya gotta be quick on the keyboard on the weekends to get the first answer in.

[PresidentM]

Our constitution states that elections are done with mail in ballot 30 days notice and vote in person at the special meeting.  

[PresidentM]

I want to bring it to convention floor for next time but it does not help for right now.

[Guest Who's Coming to Dinner]

Therefore, the presiding officer will do her or his best to implement your bylaws and if any member should object, a point of order may be raised, possibly followed by an appeal to decide the matter.

[Richard Brown]

6 hours ago, PresidentM said:

We have in our bylaws and constitution that no one may be ELECTED to TWO offices at once.  We have several members nominated to dual positions in upcoming elections.  What is the procedure here?  Can the candidates choose after election? If so is there a new election for the office they don't select or does the person with next amount of votes become elected?  Do you vote again and on same night or schedule new meeting.  We've never had this happen in our organization before.

The person who comes in second is never declared the winner. If the real winner cannot or will not assume the office, you have "no election" and vote again. If your voting is by mail, then if there is no winner it looks to me like you will need to have a new mail ballot unless your bylaws permit subsequent rounds of voting to be done in person only. 

Ultimately your president may have to make a ruling. That ruling can be appealed to the assembly for the final word.