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by law amendment and size of change


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How minor does a by-law change need to be to use a majority vote rather than notice and a 2/3 vote?

example: our by-law for trustee distribution shows area p, a, w, o, b, s and we are changing so that s

will become part of b. It also mean the trustee in s will move to w.

Does this simple change require previous notice and a 2/3 vote? Or simply bring a motion forward outlining

the change and cover with a majority vote.  Page references would be very helpful a long with experienced opinions

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16 hours ago, Guest Paul said:

How minor does a by-law change need to be to use a majority vote rather than notice and a 2/3 vote?

example: our by-law for trustee distribution shows area p, a, w, o, b, s and we are changing so that s

will become part of b. It also mean the trustee in s will move to w.

Does this simple change require previous notice and a 2/3 vote? Or simply bring a motion forward outlining

the change and cover with a majority vote.  Page references would be very helpful a long with experienced opinions

The vote requirements are the same whether you are completely rewriting the entire document, or simply inserting a comma.

 

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On 4/17/2018 at 8:41 AM, George Mervosh said:

Any change will require whatever notice  and vote is required by the bylaws for their amendment.  The size of the change is irrelevant.  

Size not relevant. That is good.  And if a by-law does not state whether 2/3 or majority is required, and Roberts is the authority, what is the requirement? Page reference would be helpful. 

I understood that previous notice and a 2/3 vote is always a requirement to amend a by-law.  

 

 

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1 minute ago, Guest Paul said:

Size not relevant. That is good.  And if a by-law does not state whether 2/3 or majority is required, and Roberts is the authority, what is the requirement? Page reference would be helpful. 

I understood that previous notice and a 2/3 vote is always a requirement to amend a by-law.  

 

 

" A motion to rescind or amend provisions of a constitution or bylaws is subject to the requirements for amendment as contained in the constitution or bylaws (see 56, 57). If the bylaws or governing instrument contains no provision relating to amendment, a motion to rescind or amend applied to a constitution or to bylaws is subject to the same voting requirement as to rescind or amend special rules of order—that is, it requires (a) previous notice as described above and a two-thirds vote or (b) a vote of a majority of the entire membership. "  RONR 11th ed., p. 307

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On 4/17/2018 at 8:41 AM, George Mervosh said:

Any change will require whatever notice  and vote is required by the bylaws for their amendment.  The size of the change is irrelevant.  

Size not relevant. That is good.  And if a by-law does not state whether 2/3 or majority is required, and Roberts is the authority, what is the requirement? Page reference would be helpful. 

I understood that previous notice and a 2/3 vote is always a requirement to amend a by-law.  

 

re: that is, it requires (a) previous notice as described above and a two-thirds vote or (b) a vote of a majority of the entire membership. "  RONR 11th ed., p. 307? In an assembly that has 11 voting members, a 2/3 vote (all being there and voting) is 8, a majority of entire membership = 7. Does this mean that 7 is the vote needed to amend a by-law and that previous notice is not needed?........Are there limitations, as per Roberts, as to when a majority of entire membership can be used? Can a voting body of 11 amend a by-law without notice providing they use  a vote of 7?

 I know this assumes there is no direction within the group's by-laws or the by-law itself and that Roberts is the named authority. I appreciate the input. Paul 

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Yes - in your example an affirmative vote of 7 ( or even 6) members is sufficient to adopt a bylaw amendment without previous notice. In small bodies such as yours, attaining a majority of the entire membership is usually easier than a 2/3 vote.

There are also a number of motions that require a 2/3 vote that cannot be adopted by a vote of a majority of the entire membership. Look in RONR, 11th edition, pp. 44-45 in the grey-tinted pages at the back of the book for a definitive list.

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re: that is, it requires (a) previous notice as described above and a two-thirds vote or (b) a vote of a majority of the entire membership. "  RONR 11th ed., p. 307? In an assembly that has 11 voting members, a 2/3 vote (all being there and voting) is 8, a majority of entire membership = 7. Does this mean that 7 is the vote needed to amend a by-law and that previous notice is not needed?........Are there limitations, as per Roberts, as to when a majority of entire membership can be used? Can a voting body of 11 amend a by-law without notice providing they use  a vote of 7?

 I know this assumes there is no direction within the group's by-laws or the by-law itself and that Roberts is the named authority. I appreciate the input. Paul 

NOTE: Sorry if I am sending two responses. I am not sure how this system works best.

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1 hour ago, Guest Paul said:

Size not relevant. That is good.  And if a by-law does not state whether 2/3 or majority is required, and Roberts is the authority, what is the requirement? Page reference would be helpful. 

I understood that previous notice and a 2/3 vote is always a requirement to amend a by-law.  

 

re: that is, it requires (a) previous notice as described above and a two-thirds vote or (b) a vote of a majority of the entire membership. "  RONR 11th ed., p. 307? In an assembly that has 11 voting members, a 2/3 vote (all being there and voting) is 8, a majority of entire membership = 7. Does this mean that 7 is the vote needed to amend a by-law and that previous notice is not needed?........Are there limitations, as per Roberts, as to when a majority of entire membership can be used? Can a voting body of 11 amend a by-law without notice providing they use  a vote of 7?

 I know this assumes there is no direction within the group's by-laws or the by-law itself and that Roberts is the named authority. I appreciate the input. Paul 

Actually, a majority of 11 is 6.

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1 hour ago, Guest Paul said:

re: that is, it requires (a) previous notice as described above and a two-thirds vote or (b) a vote of a majority of the entire membership. "  RONR 11th ed., p. 307? In an assembly that has 11 voting members, a 2/3 vote (all being there and voting) is 8, a majority of entire membership = 7. Does this mean that 7 is the vote needed to amend a by-law and that previous notice is not needed?........Are there limitations, as per Roberts, as to when a majority of entire membership can be used? Can a voting body of 11 amend a by-law without notice providing they use  a vote of 7?

 I know this assumes there is no direction within the group's by-laws or the by-law itself and that Roberts is the named authority. I appreciate the input. Paul 

It should first be noted that RONR strongly advises that an organization adopt its own rules for bylaw amendments.

In the event that an organization has failed to adopt such rules, however, the bylaws may be amended by a 2/3 vote with previous notice or a vote of a majority of the entire membership. In many societies, the idea that a majority of the entire membership will even show up to a meeting is somewhat laughable, so the latter of these does not often come into play.

In an organization which has only 11 members, however, a majority of the entire membership is six. Therefore, six votes will indeed be sufficient to adopt a motion to amend the bylaws, even without notice. There are no limitations on when this may be used.

Edited by Josh Martin
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re: that is, it requires (a) previous notice as described above and a two-thirds vote or (b) a vote of a majority of the entire membership. "  RONR 11th ed., p. 307? In an assembly that has 11 voting members, a 2/3 vote (all being there and voting) is 8, a majority of entire membership = 7. Does this mean that 7 is the vote needed to amend a by-law and that previous notice is not needed?........Are there limitations, as per Roberts, as to when a majority of entire membership can be used? Can a voting body of 11 amend a by-law without notice providing they use  a vote of 6

12 hours ago, Josh Martin said:

It should first be noted that RONR strongly advises that an organization adopt its own rules for bylaw amendments.

In the event that an organization has failed to adopt such rules, however, the bylaws may be amended by a 2/3 vote with previous notice or a vote of a majority of the entire membership. In many societies, the idea that a majority of the entire membership will even show up to a meeting is somewhat laughable, so the latter of these does not often come into play.

In an organization which has only 11 members, however, a majority of the entire membership is six. Therefore, six votes will indeed be sufficient to adopt a motion to amend the bylaws, even without notice. There are no limitations on when this may be used.

Thanks for the clarity. Fortunately we have an item that describes what is necessary for a by-law amendment. Roberts is the authority for many organisations. Good advice would be for groups to choose one or the other and specify in their procedural by-laws. Appreciated, Paul

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