can i make a motion under new business not on the agenda

[Guest Darryl]

may i ask permission of the chair to make a motion that was not originally on the agenda under the New Business Portion of the Agenda

[jstackpo]

You don't even have to "ask permission", per the rules in RONR.  You just do it.

However if the agenda (a listing of what motions are to come up under the various headings of the Standard Order of Business - see p. 26) was adopted at the start of the meeting, you would need to either move to suspend the rules and offer your motion (2/3 vote), or move to amend the agenda first to include your motion.  Same result, of course.

[Josh Martin]

1 hour ago, jstackpo said:

However if the agenda (a listing of what motions are to come up under the various headings of the Standard Order of Business - see p. 26) was adopted at the start of the meeting, you would need to either move to suspend the rules and offer your motion (2/3 vote), or move to amend the agenda first to include your motion.  Same result, of course.

Why can’t the member simply make his motion during New Business, after all other items listed on the agenda are completed?

[jstackpo]

10 minutes ago, Josh Martin said:

Why can’t the member simply make his motion during New Business, after all other items listed on the agenda are completed?

Doesn't the initial adoption of the agenda preclude introducing unagendaed items (without the extra step of suspending rules, &c.) ?  Isn't that what an agenda is for, to specify what will come up? If not, why not?

'Course there might be local rules about this we don't know about.

[jstackpo]

Also page 373 notes "no change can be made..."   That seems about as firm a statement as possible.   Any addition to an (adopted) agenda is clearly a "change".

[Dan Honemann]

If specific items are listed under the heading of "New Business" on an adopted agenda, I suppose this may give rise to an inference that nothing else may be proposed. It indicates to me that the assembly isn't using the term "New Business" as defined in RONR. After all, whatever is listed on an adopted agenda, even if listed under New Business" isn't "New Business".  🙂

[Richard Brown]

20 minutes ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

If specific items are listed under the heading of "New Business" on an adopted agenda, I suppose this may give rise to an inference that nothing else may be proposed. It indicates to me that the assembly isn't using the term "New Business" as defined in RONR. After all, whatever is listed on an adopted agenda, even if listed under New Business" isn't "New Business".  🙂

Dan, would you elaborate on the portion of your comment that I have bolded?  I think I recall a post you made recently to the effect that all specific items of business listed on an adopted agenda, even if listed in a section titled "New Business",  are actually "general orders" as opposed to "new business".  I had never looked at it that way, but your statement made sense to me (and still does).  I think perhaps some elaboration might be helpful.  

This seems especially so in light of the statement we frequently make on here that even when specific items of "new business" are listed on an agenda, other new business may still be introduced even though not included on the agenda.  This question.... whether items of "new business" not listed on the agenda may be introduced without amending the agenda or suspending the rules.... comes up often enough on this forum that I really believe it warrants further clarification.

Edited May 17, 2018 at 01:36 PM by Richard Brown
Edited the 2nd sentence to clarify that I am referring to an ADOPTED agenda.

[J. J.]

1 hour ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

If specific items are listed under the heading of "New Business" on an adopted agenda, I suppose this may give rise to an inference that nothing else may be proposed. It indicates to me that the assembly isn't using the term "New Business" as defined in RONR. After all, whatever is listed on an adopted agenda, even if listed under New Business" isn't "New Business".  🙂

Just following up on this, would they be general orders and/or special orders?

[Dan Honemann]

28 minutes ago, J. J. said:

Just following up on this, would they be general orders and/or special orders?

Yes. See page 365, lines 14-16, and page 371, lines 17-24.

[Josh Martin]

3 hours ago, jstackpo said:

Doesn't the initial adoption of the agenda preclude introducing unagendaed items (without the extra step of suspending rules, &c.) ?  Isn't that what an agenda is for, to specify what will come up? If not, why not?

On the contrary, my understanding is that the purpose of an agenda is to specify the order in which items of business will be considered and to ensure that the most important items of business are considered first, not to actually prevent the introduction of items not on the agenda (unless the assembly has adopted a rule to that effect).

3 hours ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

If specific items are listed under the heading of "New Business" on an adopted agenda, I suppose this may give rise to an inference that nothing else may be proposed. It indicates to me that the assembly isn't using the term "New Business" as defined in RONR. After all, whatever is listed on an adopted agenda, even if listed under New Business" isn't "New Business".  🙂

Unless the assembly has actually adopted a rule of order providing as much, however, I do not think this inference (while understandable) is correct.

I agree that items included on an agenda are not properly understood as “New Business” in the sense RONR uses that term.

Edited May 17, 2018 at 04:37 PM by Josh Martin

[Gary Novosielski]

If the agenda has a section entitled New Business, with nothing listed there (a situation not unheard of, in my experience), then there's little doubt that a brand new motion could be introduced  without asking permission or suspending the rules.

[Dan Honemann]

Well, I don't think that any rule in RONR itself prevents the offering of new business after all items on an adopted agenda have been disposed of.

If no time for adjournment of a meeting has been established, or if such a time has been established but has not as yet arrived, then (unless and until the assembly adopts a motion to adjourn) it seems to me that members are free to introduce any new items of business, and the chair should inquire if any member wishes to do so before declaring the meeting adjourned without the adoption of a motion to adjourn.

 

[Ray Harwood]

Related to this thread, I’ve wondered: "What may be listed under the topic of New Business on an agenda distributed in advance?"  When I recently had to call a Special Meeting, we did list some items from the call of the meeting under New Business. But for a Regular Meeting, is it ever appropriate to list items under New Business?

For my HOA board, it has been customary for board members to be able to ask the community manager (who prepares the agenda) to include items under New Business, but now I’m thinking that isn’t proper… unless there are rules specifying under what conditions they are allowed. And I’m assuming those would be Standing Rules, since the preparation of an advance agenda is an administrative task – but I could probably be convinced to think it’s a Special Rule of Order.

[Guest Who's Coming to Dinner]

An unadopted agenda is merely a guide, and as such, there is no point quibbling over what is listed under what heading. A meeting running under the standard order of business has no agenda at all, and any motion that is proper for the assembly to take up may be made under the heading of New Business.

[Dan Honemann]

10 hours ago, Ray Harwood said:

Related to this thread, I’ve wondered: "What may be listed under the topic of New Business on an agenda distributed in advance?"  When I recently had to call a Special Meeting, we did list some items from the call of the meeting under New Business. But for a Regular Meeting, is it ever appropriate to list items under New Business?

The only items of business that may be included in an agenda for a special meeting are items of business which have been specified in the call of the meeting. The adoption of an agenda listing these items will make each one of them either a special or general order, depending upon whether or not a particular hour is assigned for it to be taken up.

As far as the rules in RONR are concerned, listing specific items of business in an agenda for any kind of meeting under a heading of "New Business" simply indicates a misunderstanding of the nature of an agenda, and what is accomplished by its adoption. A careful reading of what is said on pages 371-75 in RONR (11th ed.) is advisable.