Minutes when pending motion is disposed of in executive session

[TheGuyOutside]

Hello all, I have a question about how to record both general minutes and executive session minutes when a motion introduced in a regular meeting is disposed of in executive session.

Example:

1. Regular meeting is called to order
2. Main motion A is brought before the board.
3. Embarrassing amendment B is brought before the board.
4. The board votes to enter executive session
5. Embarrassing amendment B fails
6. Main motion A is postponed to the next meeting
7. Meeting adjourned.

I am writing minutes separately for the regular meeting and the executive session. Should I include Main motion A in the regular meeting minutes? Must I include embarrassing amendment B in the regular meeting minutes? If so, how can I describe the disposal of these motions, since they were disposed of in executive session?

[Hieu H. Huynh]

I would simply say that the main motion was postponed to the next meeting.

[Josh Martin]

18 minutes ago, TheGuyOutside said:

I am writing minutes separately for the regular meeting and the executive session. Should I include Main motion A in the regular meeting minutes? Must I include embarrassing amendment B in the regular meeting minutes? If so, how can I describe the disposal of these motions, since they were disposed of in executive session?

Based upon the facts provided, I see no reason to keep separate minutes. I would simply note that “Mr. X moved that [Motion A]. The motion was postponed to the next regular meeting.” A defeated amendment is not recorded in the minutes, and since the main motion was made outside of executive session, there seems to be no benefit in keeping separate minutes - indeed, it would seem to simply make things more confusing.

[Guest Who's Coming to Dinner]

I agree and would add that the postponement, with the precise wording of the motion, goes into the executive session portion of the minutes according to the timeline posted above. Amendments are only alluded to (if adopted) or unless they are still pending at the end of the meeting.

[TheGuyOutside]

Sorry, I messed up my example. Here is the actual situation: 

1. Regular meeting is called to order
2. Main motion A is brought before the board.
3. Embarrassing amendment B is brought before the board.
4. The board votes to enter executive session
5. Embarrassing amendment B is ruled out of order
6. An appeal fails.
7. Main motion A is postponed to the next meeting
8. Meeting adjourned.

So I have to include the amendment and the appeal in the minutes for the executive session. Do I also need to include the amendment in the minutes for the main meeting?

[Hieu H. Huynh]

No.

[Josh Martin]

39 minutes ago, TheGuyOutside said:

So I have to include the amendment and the appeal in the minutes for the executive session. Do I also need to include the amendment in the minutes for the main meeting?

Ah. Based on this additional information, I agree that the amendment, the chair’s ruling and his reasoning, and the appeal must be included in the minutes. If by rule or custom the minutes are made available to persons other than the members of the assembly, then there would be value in keeping the minutes of the executive session separately. I think it is appropriate to keep the amendment solely in the minutes of the executive session. The only reason the amendment needs to be included is because the ruling and appeal need to be included, and presumably the wording of the amendment will be required for the ruling to make sense. The main motion, however, should be included in those minutes, and it seems to me that the motion to postpone should be included there as well, or else it will be very confusing.

I will note that nothing in RONR directly addresses this issue, so this is mainly speculation on my part.

I would additionally note that, even if it is not included in the minutes of the open portion of the meeting, the amendment was made outside of executive session, and as a result, members are free to mention the wording of the amendment and the fact that it was made. So it may be prudent for the assembly to decide on some statement regarding what happened to it.

Edited June 21, 2018 at 03:21 AM by Josh Martin

[TheGuyOutside]

Thank you! That makes sense.

24 minutes ago, Josh Martin said:

So it may be prudent for the assembly to decide on some statement regarding what happened to it.

Yes, certainly a subject for executive sessions future...

 

[Gary Novosielski]

Did they ever come out of executive session before adjourning?  In particular, was the motion to postpone item A made in executive session or in open session after it?

[TheGuyOutside]

Gary,

No, they never left executive session before adjourning; the motion to postpone was made in executive session.

[J. J.]

I would recommend that separate minutes be kept and the point of order and postponement be noted, both as a matter of form and of substance.

In terms of form, RONR does state that what happens in executive session should be kept in separate minutes (unless released by the assembly) and that points of order and the temporary disposition of a main motion are to be listed.  The only way that I can see to comply those rules  is to put them into the minutes of the executive session. 

In terms of substance, the motion might have been sent into executive session because of the "embarrassing amendment," but the motion stayed in executive session once that amendment was no longer pending.  There may be a reason for that. 

[Dan Honemann]

On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 10:13 PM, TheGuyOutside said:

I am writing minutes separately for the regular meeting and the executive session. Should I include Main motion A in the regular meeting minutes? Must I include embarrassing amendment B in the regular meeting minutes? If so, how can I describe the disposal of these motions, since they were disposed of in executive session?

In my opinion:

1. Yes, you should include the making of motion A in the minutes of that portion of the regular meeting that preceded the executive session because that is when it was made. These minutes should also reflect the fact that the meeting went into executive session while this motion was pending. These minutes should also reflect the time of adjournment, even although the meeting was adjourned while in executive session.

2. Amendment B should not be included in the minutes of that portion of the regular meeting that preceded the executive session. This proposed amendment, the fact that it was ruled out of order by the chair and the reasons given by the chair for this ruling, and the fact that this ruling was sustained on appeal, should all be included in the minutes covering that portion of the meeting that was held in executive session. 

3. The fact that motion A was postponed to the next meeting should be reflected only in the minutes covering that portion of the meeting that was held in executive session, and these minutes should also reflect the time of adjournment.