Budget Question

[Lstolk]

So I'm the president of my hunt club and my Executive board presented the yearly budget to the membership at our monthly meeting.  We covered the budget by line numbers and when we got to the guest fee a motion was made to increase the guest fee by $10 and was seconded.  A heated discussion followed and then a vote was made and the change was passed to the higher fee.  

Now I got a rebuttal from a member that the bylaw was not followed.  Our bylaw states: "The Executive Board, subject to the approval of the membership, shall set the annual dues and guest fees"!  Now the questioning member believes that the member who made the motion to raise the guest fee was out of order and the motion was illegal as per our bylaw.  

We have presented the budget each year and made corrections to the line entries when motions were made to correct in the past.  I feel I am within my right as president to disapprove this request to remove this line correction and leave it as it originally stands.  Am I wrong?

[Joshua Katz]

5 minutes ago, Lstolk said:

 

We have presented the budget each year and made corrections to the line entries when motions were made to correct in the past.  I feel I am within my right as president to disapprove this request to remove this line correction and leave it as it originally stands.  Am I wrong?

I'm a little confused. What is the request? Your bylaw is a little ambiguous in that it says "subject to the approval of the membership" but it does not say just how that approval works - is it passive or active, for instance? I'm not sure if the complaint has any merit or not, since the board can set the dues and fees subject to this approval - the process has to start in some way. In any event, though, the member can only raise the point of order at a meeting, not outside of one. So you have no obligation to correct it unless you rule the point of order well taken, or a contrary ruling is overruled on appeal.

[Lstolk]

I got prior notice of this motion which will be raised next meeting.  The funny part of this motion is that this member has been on our exec. Board for a while and has not questioned this procedure in the past.  This is a hot issue and I just want to make sure I act correctly.  Thanks for the response. 

[Richard Brown]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see anything wrong.  However, as Joshua pointed out, the member can raise a point of order at the next meeting that the motion was not properly adopted or that it exceeded the authority of the membership and you, as chair, will rule on it.  Any two members (a mover and a seconder) can appeal your ruling to the assembly.  An appeal is subject to limited debate (one speech per member, except for the chair, who can speak first and last).  It takes a majority vote to overturn the ruling of the chair.  

I suspect the bottom line is whether the bylaws grant the board (or  executive committee) the "sole and exclusive" authority to set the guest fee.  Personally, I do not think it does, but that is a matter of interpreting your bylaws, something only your membership can do.  The fact that the board is given the authority to o something does not necessarily mean that it has the exclusive authority to do it.  Normally, unless the bylaws grant the board the exclusive power to do something, the membership has the right to have the final say on the issue.

btw, I have several reasons for thinking that nothing inappropriate happened, but I hope to not have to get into it.

 

Edited February 25, 2019 at 09:44 PM by Richard Brown
Typographical correction and added unlerlined text to second sentence

[Nathan Zook]

Based on the quoted bylaws, I would have well taken a point of order raised at the time.  However, the stated final authority of the fee is the assembly, and the assembly approved the fee.  The fee was a line item in the budget, and the assembly was aware that the budget was under consideration.  No authority to approve was abridged.  Notice was in place.  I see no continuing breech.

 

[Drake Savory]

My organization had a similar situation.  There was a budget hearing required by the bylaws and it was never noticed before last year.  A member of the Board wanted to invalidate the budget because of the oversight and upon researching it I realized that while there can be a continuing breach for action taken in violation of the bylaws, that NOT doing something that the bylaws requires cannot be a continuing breach (cf: Nathan Zook's reply) therefore any Point of Order about the inaction needs to be timely.

[Joshua Katz]

I think I misread the original question and thought the complaints were about a board meeting. Seeing that they are about a membership meeting, I am more confused as to what the complaint is. Nonetheless, I stand by my description of the process to be followed.

[Josh Martin]

1 hour ago, Richard Brown said:

I suspect the bottom line is whether the bylaws grant the board (or  executive committee) the "sole and exclusive" authority to set the guest fee.  Personally, I do not think it does, but that is a matter of interpreting your bylaws, something only your membership can do.  The fact that the board is given the authority to o something does not necessarily mean that it has the exclusive authority to do it.  Normally, unless the bylaws grant the board the exclusive power to do something, the membership has the right to have the final say on the issue.

The bylaws obviously do not grant the board the exclusive authority to set the guest fee, since the bylaws say that the Executive Board shall set such fees “subject to the approval of the membership.” The member seems to be claiming a violation on a more technical point. He may be arguing one of the following:

• That the bylaws only permit the membership to approve or reject the amount of the fee (and presumably in the latter case, the board proposes a new amount), not to amend the amount proposed by the board.
• That the bylaws require the guest fee to be proposed and considered as a separate motion, not as a part of the budget.

I don’t find either argument particularly persuasive, but they are at least more persuasive than suggesting that the board has exclusive authority in this area.

1 hour ago, Nathan Zook said:

Based on the quoted bylaws, I would have well taken a point of order raised at the time.  However, the stated final authority of the fee is the assembly, and the assembly approved the fee.  The fee was a line item in the budget, and the assembly was aware that the budget was under consideration.  No authority to approve was abridged.  Notice was in place.  I see no continuing breech.

I am not convinced there was even a violation at the time, but I am inclined to agree that even if there was, it is not a continuing breach.

1 hour ago, Drake Savory said:

that NOT doing something that the bylaws requires cannot be a continuing breach (cf: Nathan Zook's reply) therefore any Point of Order about the inaction needs to be timely.

I do not think that this statement is categorically correct. Failing to send a required notice, for instance, causes a continuing breach. I am inclined to agree, however, that failing to hold a budget hearing generally would not cause a continuing breach.

[Gary Novosielski]

6 hours ago, Nathan Zook said:

Based on the quoted bylaws, I would have well taken a point of order raised at the time.  However, the stated final authority of the fee is the assembly, and the assembly approved the fee.  The fee was a line item in the budget, and the assembly was aware that the budget was under consideration.  No authority to approve was abridged.  Notice was in place.  I see no continuing breech.

 

If notice was required and in place, then the motion to raise the fee might have exceeded the scope of the notice.

[Nathan Zook]

20 minutes ago, Gary Novosielski said:

If notice was required and in place, then the motion to raise the fee might have exceeded the scope of the notice.

That is an interesting point.  The notice that I am referring to is the notice that the budget, which includes the fee structure, was given.

[Shmuel Gerber]

20 hours ago, Josh Martin said:

The bylaws obviously do not grant the board the exclusive authority to set the guest fee, since the bylaws say that the Executive Board shall set such fees “subject to the approval of the membership.” The member seems to be claiming a violation on a more technical point. He may be arguing one of the following:

• That the bylaws only permit the membership to approve or reject the amount of the fee (and presumably in the latter case, the board proposes a new amount), not to amend the amount proposed by the board.
• That the bylaws require the guest fee to be proposed and considered as a separate motion, not as a part of the budget.

Given just the information posted in this thread, I find the second first point persuasive. Or, in other words, the bylaws obviously do grant the board the exclusive authority to set the guest fee, subject to approval by the membership. 🙂

Edited February 26, 2019 at 08:24 PM by Shmuel Gerber