Davis Posted March 26, 2019 at 05:31 PM Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 at 05:31 PM We have a city council hearing coming up in New England. I'm wondering if I can create a motion to have a particular matter voted on by the attendees (audience) at the hearing. I heard from a friend that this can be done at Selectmen hearings but not city council ones. I'm not sure what to think. Does anyone have knowledge in this area? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Katz Posted March 26, 2019 at 05:35 PM Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 at 05:35 PM So far as RONR is concerned, people who are members of the body meeting vote (and make motions), not audience members. It is possible that there are statutes creating other systems for decision-making, particularly given that this is New England and has the town-meeting style of government, but questions about those mechanisms are outside the scope of this forum. (I was an office holder in a New England town using a town meeting government, and we had nothing of the sort, at any meeting.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted March 26, 2019 at 10:03 PM Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 at 10:03 PM 4 hours ago, Davis said: We have a city council hearing coming up in New England. I'm wondering if I can create a motion to have a particular matter voted on by the attendees (audience) at the hearing. I heard from a friend that this can be done at Selectmen hearings but not city council ones. I'm not sure what to think. Does anyone have knowledge in this area? So far as RONR is concerned, such a motion is not in order at any meeting or hearing. Once again, if such a rule exists, it would presumably be found in state or local law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis Posted March 27, 2019 at 06:59 PM Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 at 06:59 PM Thanks guys. The friend that gave me the idea that a motion can be made that calls for a vote on the floor from the audience also sent me the link below. What I am asking about is in there but I'm having a hard time finding the right section.https://westsidetoastmasters.com/resources/roberts_rules/chap18.html#mot1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zev Posted March 27, 2019 at 07:36 PM Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 at 07:36 PM Whatever it is that the Toastmasters believe in and what rules the City Council has are about as far as East is from the West and in no way intersect in this or any other universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Geiger Posted March 27, 2019 at 08:08 PM Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 at 08:08 PM (edited) Officially, every Toastmasters club I've ever attended has used RONR as its parliamentary authority. (I vaguely remember that it's actually required by the US organization and highly encouraged elsewhere, but I haven't been a Toastmaster in almost a decade.) In practice, it's much more common to see "Bob's Rules" or "Telephone Rules". Most members don't read RONR; they learn by watching members who learned from watching members who learned from watching members who might have skimmed one of the public-domain editions once. Edited March 27, 2019 at 08:09 PM by Benjamin Geiger Clarified a statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Katz Posted March 27, 2019 at 11:58 PM Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 at 11:58 PM There are three things here - RONR, applicable statutes, and whatever Toastmasters has to say on the matter. There's overlap between RONR and Toastmasters (although I've only ever seen them use anything similar to RONR once a year), but if you're going to be able to have non-members vote on something, it's going to come from your statutes - even if TM says something on point, so what? Your town has statutes, perhaps bylaws, and might have adopted RONR, but it is highly unlikely it adopted Toastmaster's rules of order (especially since, as Mr. Geiger notes, TM claims to use RONR). In any event, if you (perhaps out of curiosity) want to know where in the TM FAQ this person claims to find the authority for a public body to allow non-members to vote, I suppose you'll have to ask him to point to specifically where in the document it says that - and to explain what it has to do with your town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmuel Gerber Posted March 28, 2019 at 03:40 PM Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 at 03:40 PM 20 hours ago, Davis said: Thanks guys. The friend that gave me the idea that a motion can be made that calls for a vote on the floor from the audience also sent me the link below. What I am asking about is in there but I'm having a hard time finding the right section.https://westsidetoastmasters.com/resources/roberts_rules/chap18.html#mot1 No, it's not in there. Furthermore, much of the content of the page is blatantly a violation of copyright held by the Robert's Rules Association. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zev Posted March 28, 2019 at 09:03 PM Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 at 09:03 PM 5 hours ago, Shmuel Gerber said: Furthermore, much of the content of the page is blatantly a violation of copyright held by the Robert's Rules Association. Perhaps some caution is called for in this matter, Mr. G. As far as I can tell their chapter 1-16 and 19 are from the 4th edition of 1915, and chapters 17, 18, and 20 are items of their own invention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Geiger Posted March 28, 2019 at 09:26 PM Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 at 09:26 PM (edited) 24 minutes ago, Guest Zev said: chapters 17, 18, and 20 are items of their own invention. Pretty significant chunks of chapter 18 (the one OP linked to) appear to come straight from the official RONR FAQ, which is itself pulled from RONRIB. Edited March 28, 2019 at 09:27 PM by Benjamin Geiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmuel Gerber Posted March 28, 2019 at 09:49 PM Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 at 09:49 PM 23 minutes ago, Benjamin Geiger said: Pretty significant chunks of chapter 18 (the one OP linked to) appear to come straight from the official RONR FAQ, which is itself pulled from RONRIB. Exactly. As I said, blatant copyright violation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zev Posted March 28, 2019 at 10:13 PM Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 at 10:13 PM Oh. I compared them to PL but not to the web site's FAQ. If that is the case then I stand corrected. Nevertheless, go easy on them, Mr. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted March 28, 2019 at 10:47 PM Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 at 10:47 PM 1 hour ago, Benjamin Geiger said: Pretty significant chunks of chapter 18 (the one OP linked to) appear to come straight from the official RONR FAQ, which is itself pulled from RONRIB. I think the FAQ predates RONRIB, but yes, many of the questions and answers in that Toastmasters doc are lifted from the RONR FAQ word for word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Geiger Posted March 29, 2019 at 12:00 AM Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 at 12:00 AM 1 hour ago, Gary Novosielski said: I think the FAQ predates RONRIB That's probable, but I was going by this note in the FAQ: "The material here is derived from Chapter 13 of Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised In Brief." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis Posted March 31, 2019 at 12:42 AM Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 at 12:42 AM Thanks guys. This is a big help. If I can get more information from my friend who said the can be a motion to vote on the floor I'll be sure to come back and post. I appreciate everyone's help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts