Agenda item miscount discovered after adjournment

[Jim Bartel]

At our annual membership meeting the other evening, an agenda item was voted upon using ballots. The initial vote tally indicated that the total was below the threshold to pass, therefore it failed and the meeting was adjourned. Immediately following the meeting, it was discovered that one of the proxy ballots containing multiple votes was not counted. Had these votes been included, the item would've passed.

My thinking is that a motion to rescind is now in order (vs reconsider). Additionally, since this item required a vote by the total membership, the membership will have to have a special meeting in order to vote on it once again.

My question is whether there is an alternative mechanism whereby we don't have to bring all of the membership together once again for a new vote. We still have all of the original ballots. Your thoughts are most appreciated.

[George Mervosh]

Under the rules in RONR, business can only be transacted at a regular or properly called meeting. So there is no alternative mechanism found in RONR.

[Richard Brown]

Agreeing with Mr. Mervosh, the same motion can be made again (renewed) at a future meeting as if if had never been made before.

[Bruce Lages]

If the original ballots can be deemed as securely held since the meeting at which the vote was taken, couldn't the assembly call a special meeting within a quarterly time period and conduct a recount?

[George Mervosh]

8 minutes ago, Bruce Lages said:

If the original ballots can be deemed as securely held since the meeting at which the vote was taken, couldn't the assembly call a special meeting within a quarterly time period and conduct a recount?

Yes.  "A recount may also be ordered at a special session properly called for that purpose, if held within a quarterly time interval of the session at which the voting result was announced and before the next regular session. "  RONR (11th ed.), p. 419

1 hour ago, Jim Bartel said:

My thinking is that a motion to rescind is now in order (vs reconsider)

That's not proper.  A motion to rescind applies to adopted main motions and reconsideration is not possible at this point.  As Mr. Lages notes, a recount is a viable option if the ballots are secure, and if not, as Mr. Brown notes, the motion can simply be made again.  Either action must be done at a regular or properly called meeting.  

Edited March 5, 2020 at 08:40 PM by George Mervosh

[Guest Zev]

Part of the problem is that the presiding officer's announcement has already taken place, no timely Point Of Order has been raised, the meeting has adjourned and the item in question is not a continuing breach as defined on page 251. As far as I can tell, all such previous cases have been classified as a done deal.

[Atul Kapur]

2 hours ago, Guest Zev said:

Part of the problem is that the presiding officer's announcement has already taken place, no timely Point Of Order has been raised, the meeting has adjourned and the item in question is not a continuing breach as defined on page 251. As far as I can tell, all such previous cases have been classified as a done deal.

Except that the time limit for a recount has not expired and is different than the timeliness requirement for a Point of Order. As Mr. Mervosh has cited, a special meeting may be called, within a quarterly time interval, to hold a recount. Now it depends on whether and what rules the organization has for calling special meetings.

4 hours ago, Jim Bartel said:

My question is whether there is an alternative mechanism whereby we don't have to bring all of the membership together once again for a new vote. We still have all of the original ballots. Your thoughts are most appreciated.

Mr. Bartel, the only thing that I can think of that may possibly avoid calling a special meeting of the membership is what powers does the Board have between annual membership meetings. The Board may have the powers of a membership meeting and you may be able to do the recount at a Board meeting. Please note the stress on the word "may". It depends on the exact wording of your bylaws.

[Jim Bartel]

Atul,

Thank you for your response. Unfortunately, the amendment involves a change to our Bylaws, and that can only be accomplished by meeting a voting threshold by the entire membership.

Based upon what I've seen here, I think our path is pretty clear. We will have another membership meeting as fast we can get the notifications sent and we will have a recount before the membership.

 

Thanks to all of you. This has been most instructive.

[Atul Kapur]

1 hour ago, Jim Bartel said:

Thank you for your response. Unfortunately, the amendment involves a change to our Bylaws, and that can only be accomplished by meeting a voting threshold by the entire membership.

I think that having a special meeting is the safest way to go. 

But your reply suggest a misunderstanding. Please be clear that you are not having the special meeting repeat the vote. It is being held to do a recount of the ballots that have already been cast. The only question being decided is whether the ballots that were cast at the original meeting met the threshold for the amendment to the bylaws to be adopted.

The board may have the authority to order a recount. The board, same as the special meeting, is not actually re-voting. In both cases, all that is being done is to see whether the membership at the regular annual meeting cast enough votes to adopt this amendment. If the board decides to go this way (perhaps for cost reasons) and has the power to do so, they are not substituting their judgment for that of the membership.

I'm not arguing in favor of going this way. As I said, calling a special meeting is the safest way to go and for political and other reasons you may not want to pursue the issue of whether the board can do this.

[Jim Bartel]

Atul,

It is indeed my intent that the special meeting shall have the sole task of recounting the vote and I will ensure that the notices to members are quite clear on this.

I wish there was an alternative, but everything I've read here and in other places points in this direction.

Thanks again to this group. This is my 2nd day as President and I never envisioned an issue like this popping up right off the top. All of you have helped immensely.

[Gary Novosielski]

1 hour ago, Atul Kapur said:

I think that having a special meeting is the safest way to go. 

But your reply suggest a misunderstanding. Please be clear that you are not having the special meeting repeat the vote. It is being held to do a recount of the ballots that have already been cast. The only question being decided is whether the ballots that were cast at the original meeting met the threshold for the amendment to the bylaws to be adopted.

The board may have the authority to order a recount. The board, same as the special meeting, is not actually re-voting. In both cases, all that is being done is to see whether the membership at the regular annual meeting cast enough votes to adopt this amendment. If the board decides to go this way (perhaps for cost reasons) and has the power to do so, they are not substituting their judgment for that of the membership.

I'm not arguing in favor of going this way. As I said, calling a special meeting is the safest way to go and for political and other reasons you may not want to pursue the issue of whether the board can do this.

I don't think the board would have the authority to order a recount, especially in the case of a bylaws amendment.  What's needed is for the board (or other convener) to call a special meeting of the membership for the purpose of considering and possibly conducting a recount.  At the meeting, it would be the membership who would move to order a recount, and then conduct it.

[Atul Kapur]

11 hours ago, Gary Novosielski said:

I don't think the board would have the authority to order a recount, especially in the case of a bylaws amendment. 

Gary, I was responding to Mr. Bartel's request for an alternative to a general meeting of the membership. It's moot now, but I suggested he look to see if the bylaws gave the board the authority to do such things between membership meetings. If they did, I think it's immaterial whether it was a vote on a bylaws amendment or something else .

Edited March 6, 2020 at 03:56 PM by Atul Kapur