Are time limits in a committee agenda permissible?

[Richard Brown]

RONR is quite clear on page 500 (and in the footnote on that page) that "motions to close or limit debate are not allowed in committees".   The full sentence reads "In order that there may be no interference with the assembly's having the benefit of its committees' matured judgment, motions to close or limit debate (15, 16) are not allowed in committees.*"  The footnote on page 500 and the text on page 501 contain provisions for dealing with committee members who abuse the unlimited debate privilege.   Motions to close or limit debate are also not allowed in the committee of the whole (p.534).

In view of the prohibition of motions to close or limit debate in a committee, would setting time limits for  consideration of various items in the committee's agenda be permissible?   I have in mind a rather large standing committee of about a dozen members in which the chair traditionally provides its members with a proposed agenda in advance of the meeting and actually adopts the agenda at the beginning of each meeting. Each agenda usually contains several items to consider.  Since motions to close or limit debate are not permitted, the following question has arisen:  May a committee set time limits on each agenda item when it adopts its agenda?  

A related question:  Regardless of the answer to the question above, may an adopted committee agenda contain a pre-set time for adjournment?    This question also came up in the committee. Some argued that it is effectively setting a time limit on debate, especially if there is only one item of business to consider.

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

Commenting so I get notifications of any response to this.

[Atul Kapur]

9 hours ago, Caryn Ann Harlos said:

Commenting so I get notifications of any response to this.

I believe you only would be notified if someone quotes you, as I just did.

There is a button called "Follow" which, I understand, will notify you even if you're not quoted.

[Dan Honemann]

12 hours ago, Richard Brown said:

In view of the prohibition of motions to close or limit debate in a committee, would setting time limits for  consideration of various items in the committee's agenda be permissible?   I have in mind a rather large standing committee of about a dozen members in which the chair traditionally provides its members with a proposed agenda in advance of the meeting and actually adopts the agenda at the beginning of each meeting. Each agenda usually contains several items to consider.  Since motions to close or limit debate are not permitted, the following question has arisen:  May a committee set time limits on each agenda item when it adopts its agenda?  

Without thinking about this as long as I should, and without doing any research at all, I'll say that the answer to both of these questions is "no".

[Dan Honemann]

12 hours ago, Richard Brown said:

A related question:  Regardless of the answer to the question above, may an adopted committee agenda contain a pre-set time for adjournment?    This question also came up in the committee. Some argued that it is effectively setting a time limit on debate, especially if there is only one item of business to consider.

Without thinking about this as long as I should, and without doing any research at all, I'll say that the answer to this question is "yes".

I'm on a roll this morning.  🙂.

[George Mervosh]

50 minutes ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

Without thinking about this as long as I should, and without doing any research at all, I'll say that the answer to this question is "yes".

I'm on a roll this morning.  🙂.

Until this update I was thinking that if that question was on my RP test I would have been kaput.

[Richard Brown]

46 minutes ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

I'm on a roll this morning.  🙂.

Not only that, but we are in agreement!  I have been told, though, that at least one very highly respected PRP disagrees with our answer to the first question and believes that setting time limits in a committee agenda is permissible.  That's why I posed the question here.  The committee chair ruled that time limits are not permissible.  The ruling was appealed and the chair's ruling was sustained by one vote.

[Atul Kapur]

13 hours ago, Richard Brown said:

A related question:  Regardless of the answer to the question above, may an adopted committee agenda contain a pre-set time for adjournment?    This question also came up in the committee. Some argued that it is effectively setting a time limit on debate, especially if there is only one item of business to consider.

 

1 hour ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

Without thinking about this as long as I should, and without doing any research at all, I'll say that the answer to this question is "yes".

I'm on a roll this morning.  🙂.

I agree with both of Mr. Honemann's answers (fortunately for me). I just want to confirm that the reason why it is in order is because that does not necessarily end the debate on the items of business and therefore is not at all the same as setting a time limit on debate.

[Josh Martin]

1 hour ago, Atul Kapur said:

I agree with both of Mr. Honemann's answers (fortunately for me). I just want to confirm that the reason why it is in order is because that does not necessarily end the debate on the items of business and therefore is not at all the same as setting a time limit on debate.

I agree as well. It seems to me that a motion to set a time limit in the agenda is, in effect, a motion to limit debate. Given the effect of setting such time limits in the agenda, I don't see how it can be viewed as anything other motion to limit debate. The rule in question doesn't say that certain named motions are not allowed. It says that motions to "close or limit debate" are not allowed. A motion to adopt an agenda with time limits is certainly a motion to limit debate.

"When the assigned time for taking up a topic in an agenda arrives, the chair announces that fact. Then he puts to a vote any pending questions without allowing further debate, unless someone immediately moves to lay the question on the table, postpone it, or refer it to a committee." (RONR, 11th ed., pg. 373)

If the committee wishes to impose time limits, the proper course of action is to request the parent assembly to set such limits or to authorize the committee to do so.

"Committees of organized societies operate under the bylaws, the parliamentary authority, and any special rules of order or standing rules of the society which may be applicable to them. A committee may not adopt its own rules except as authorized in the rules of the society or in instructions given to the committee by its parent assembly in a particular case." (RONR, 11th ed., pgs. 500-501)

A motion to adjourn, however, does not have the effect of limiting debate. The debate may resume at the next meeting.