Publish Vote Count?

[Guest Joseph S]

First, I apologize if the answer to my question is obvious. I am new to our association, new to RROO, and new to this forum. My association just voted by ballot (on-line Google form) for their board. They (the current president and 2 at-large members of the board published the winners of all the positions but refuse to post the vote counts for each position. Not all positions were contested, but most were. That certainly doesn't feel right to many of us. Nothing in our by-laws speaks to this specifically. Is it in RROO? If so, will someone provide a link to the language for me? Thank you. 

[Richard Brown]

What do you mean when you say the results of the election are published? Published in what way?

RONR is clear that the complete vote totals for every candidate should be included in the tellers report, read again by the chair when announcing the results and included in the minutes.

There is no requirement that the vote totals be published in any other manner. If your minutes are distributed to the members or posted online, then the vote totals should be included in those minutes.  

However, if the election results are published in some other way, such as an announcement in the newspaper, there is no requirement that the vote totals be included.

Edited to add: see pages 417-418 regarding including the complete tellers report in the minutes.

Edited May 15, 2020 at 03:21 PM by Richard Brown
Added last paragraph

[Josh Martin]

4 minutes ago, Guest Joseph S said:

First, I apologize if the answer to my question is obvious. I am new to our association, new to RROO, and new to this forum. My association just voted by ballot (on-line Google form) for their board. They (the current president and 2 at-large members of the board published the winners of all the positions but refuse to post the vote counts for each position. Not all positions were contested, but most were. That certainly doesn't feel right to many of us. Nothing in our by-laws speaks to this specifically. Is it in RROO? If so, will someone provide a link to the language for me? Thank you. 

"The tellers' report is entered in full in the minutes, becoming a part of the official records of the organization. Under no circumstances should this be omitted in an election or in a vote on a critical motion out of a mistaken deference to the feelings of unsuccessful candidates or members of the losing side." (RONR, 11th ed., pg. 418)

A full teller's report includes the total number of votes cast, the number of votes necessary for election, and the number of votes cast for each candidate (including illegal votes, if any). An example is provided in RONR:

"TELLERS' REPORT
Number of votes cast 97
Necessary for election (majority) 49
Mr. Miller received 51
Mr. Wilson received 24
Mr. Strong received 14
Illegal Votes
Mr. Friend (ineligible) 7
Two ballots for
       Mr. Wilson folded together, rejected 1" (RONR 11th ed., pg. 417)

RONR does not require that the minutes be published (although it may well be required by your society's rules or applicable law), but at a minimum, they must be available for members to review upon request (within reason).

"To maintain record book(s) in which the bylaws, special rules of order, standing rules, and minutes are entered, with any amendments to these documents properly recorded, and to have the current record book(s) on hand at every meeting." (RONR, 11th ed., pg. 459)

"Any member has a right to examine these reports and the record book(s) referred to on page 459, lines 13–16, including the minutes of an executive session, at a reasonable time and place, but this privilege must not be abused to the annoyance of the secretary." (RONR, 11th ed., pg. 460)

[Guest Guest Joseph S]

3 minutes ago, Richard Brown said:

What do you mean when you say the results of the election are published? Published in what way?

RONR is clear that the complete vote totals for every candidate should be included in the tellers report, read again by the chair when announcing the results and included in the minutes.

There is no requirement that the vote totals be published in any other manner. If your minutes are distributed to the members or posted online, then the vote totals should be included in those minutes.  

However, if the election results are published in some other way, such as an announcement in the newspaper, there is no requirement that the vote totals be included.

By publishing I mean sending out an email to the members that includes the vote totals for each position rather than simply posting that "Bob won the VP position."

[George Mervosh]

Is a ballot vote required by the bylaws for elections?  

[Richard Brown]

1 minute ago, Guest Guest Joseph S said:

By publishing I mean sending out an email to the members that includes the vote totals for each position rather than simply posting that "Bob won the VP position."

If you are referring to an email that simply announces who the new officers are, possibly along with other organization news, there is no requirement to include the vote totals in that communication.

[Atul Kapur]

Let's step back for a moment. The election was done by Google forms. It suggests to me that this election was done outside of a meeting. A wild guess: the annual meeting was cancelled because of the pandemic and someone decided to hold the elections virtually. This raises the question of whether the bylaws permit this to happen in the first place.

Let's assume that this is permitted by the bylaws (at least let's assume it for the purposes of this paragraph that follows). If this was meant to replace an in-person election at a proper meeting, then the procedures for an election should be followed as closely as possible. That would include a complete tellers' report. That report should be in the complete format that is described earlier.

 

[George Mervosh]

1 hour ago, George Mervosh said:

Is a ballot vote required by the bylaws for elections?  

I asked because of what we (or at least I) learned here.  https://robertsrules.forumflash.com/topic/30139-what-constitutes-a-ballot-vote/

 

Edited May 15, 2020 at 04:25 PM by George Mervosh

[Weldon Merritt]

It appears that Guest Joseph S is just asking about including vote totals in an email announcment of the election results, and not about including them in the minutes. If so, I concur that vote totals are not required in such an email, but they are required in the minutes.

And for the benefit of of anyone who may question why the vote totals should be announced and recorded (other than the fact that it's the rule), I offer the following list compiled by long-time member Dr. John Stackpole (now deceased):

Quote

Consider some possibilities:
1)  The winner got nearly all the votes and the loser has had a long history of fruitlessly running for office.  Reading the vote count might send him a message, that it is time to quit making a fool of himself.
2)  The vote is "reasonably" close.  This way the loser will be encouraged to try again, as it seems, by the vote, that he has a good deal of potential, and many friends, but just went up against a better person this time.  This may help to keep a good candidate in the game.
3)  The vote is "extremely" close - one or two votes different.  The assembly may very well want to order a recount (RONR p. 419, line 1, see index also) just to be sure of the result.  This way there are no (or fewer) hard feelings.
4)   The president, when declaring who won, makes a simple mistake and names the wrong person, or he does not understand the vote required to adopt the motion (majority, 2/3, &c.) and states the "wrong" outcome.
5)   The tellers make an error.  Reading the results out loud may not help to catch this but studying the printed documentation  in the minutes at leisure probably would.  The documentation would also serve as evidence if there were serious questions about the outcome.
Without the teller having read the numbers, how will anybody (except the teller, if he is paying attention) know to correct this?
6)   The winner of the election (or partisans of the winning side of a critical issue) could weigh the numerical results in terms of whether they have a "mandate" to proceed at full bore, or whether there might be some fence mending to look after first.
If the vote results were not made immediately available to the membership, none of the above good things could happen.
And this listing doesn't even mention the myriad possibilities for knavery or outright fraud that are available when vote counts are kept secret.