Guest Rules Neophyte Posted July 30, 2020 at 01:11 PM Report Share Posted July 30, 2020 at 01:11 PM Our organization's by-laws state that we follow RONR. Recently our board of directors placed a candidate on the ballot who is currently not eligible for election, and may never be eligible. I've been going over my 11th ed RONR trying to find the right line to quote to demonstrate that this not permissible. I'm not sure that I can find it. Can someone help me? Is this too obvious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted July 30, 2020 at 01:24 PM Report Share Posted July 30, 2020 at 01:24 PM (edited) 14 minutes ago, Guest Rules Neophyte said: Our organization's by-laws state that we follow RONR. Recently our board of directors placed a candidate on the ballot who is currently not eligible for election, and may never be eligible. I've been going over my 11th ed RONR trying to find the right line to quote to demonstrate that this not permissible. I'm not sure that I can find it. Can someone help me? Is this too obvious? See RONR (11th ed.), pp 444-46 "CONTESTING THE ANNOUNCED RESULT OF AN ELECTION" See the first bullet point on p. 445. I don't see anything in the book that says he can't be a nominee. It's only an issue if he's elected and isn't eligible to hold office and from your facts, even you don't seem certain he will be ineligible if elected. Edited July 30, 2020 at 01:26 PM by George Mervosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rules Neophyte Posted July 30, 2020 at 02:06 PM Report Share Posted July 30, 2020 at 02:06 PM Thanks for the response! By the by-laws the candidate is not currently eligible due to a term limit. The board hopes to modify the by-laws to make the candidate eligible before the election with a vote from the membership. However this vote unlikely. Some of us believe putting ineligible candidates' names on the ballot is bad order and takes votes from other eligible candidates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted July 30, 2020 at 02:10 PM Report Share Posted July 30, 2020 at 02:10 PM I don't have the book in front of me, but isn't a vote for someone ineligible an illegal vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted July 30, 2020 at 02:10 PM Report Share Posted July 30, 2020 at 02:10 PM 3 minutes ago, Guest Rules Neophyte said: Thanks for the response! By the by-laws the candidate is not currently eligible due to a term limit. The board hopes to modify the by-laws to make the candidate eligible before the election with a vote from the membership. However this vote unlikely. Some of us believe putting ineligible candidates' names on the ballot is bad order and takes votes from other eligible candidates. There is still no rule prohibiting him from being a candidate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted July 30, 2020 at 02:20 PM Report Share Posted July 30, 2020 at 02:20 PM 8 minutes ago, Atul Kapur said: I don't have the book in front of me, but isn't a vote for someone ineligible an illegal vote? If the term limits change our guest mentioned doesn't pass before the election, yes. "Unintelligible ballots or ballots cast for an unidentifiable or ineligible candidate are treated instead as illegal votes —that is, they are counted as votes cast but are not credited to any candidate or choice." RONR (11th ed.), p. 416 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rules Neophyte Posted July 30, 2020 at 02:21 PM Report Share Posted July 30, 2020 at 02:21 PM Yes, votes for ineligible candidates are illegal. Unfortunately this about timing. Members can turn in their ballots/votes any time in the next two weeks, either by dropping them off or mailing them in. The vote to modify the by-laws to make the candidate eligible is planned just before the voting closes. Some members will turn in their ballots before knowing whether the candidate will be eligible or not. The more I describe this, the more it sounds like hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted July 30, 2020 at 03:19 PM Report Share Posted July 30, 2020 at 03:19 PM (edited) 58 minutes ago, Guest Rules Neophyte said: Yes, votes for ineligible candidates are illegal. Unfortunately this about timing. Members can turn in their ballots/votes any time in the next two weeks, either by dropping them off or mailing them in. The vote to modify the by-laws to make the candidate eligible is planned just before the voting closes. Some members will turn in their ballots before knowing whether the candidate will be eligible or not. The more I describe this, the more it sounds like hell. Based on these facts, I don't really like what your board is doing either, but I don't think it is technically improper. If the bylaws are amended to make this candidate eligible, then votes cast for him will be counted. If the bylaws are not amended to make this candidate eligible, then votes for him will be treated as illegal votes. Such votes are counted for the purposes of determining whether any candidate has a majority, but are not credited to any particular candidate. Edited July 30, 2020 at 03:20 PM by Josh Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted July 30, 2020 at 03:22 PM Report Share Posted July 30, 2020 at 03:22 PM 57 minutes ago, Guest Rules Neophyte said: Yes, votes for ineligible candidates are illegal. Unfortunately this about timing. Members can turn in their ballots/votes any time in the next two weeks, either by dropping them off or mailing them in. The vote to modify the by-laws to make the candidate eligible is planned just before the voting closes. Some members will turn in their ballots before knowing whether the candidate will be eligible or not. The more I describe this, the more it sounds like hell. What is happening may seem to be, well, "unseemly", but it is nonetheless permissible. In my opinion, if the bylaws are amended in a way that makes this candidate eligible for the office prior to the polls being closed, and he is elected, his election will be valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted July 30, 2020 at 04:04 PM Report Share Posted July 30, 2020 at 04:04 PM 2 hours ago, George Mervosh said: I don't see anything in the book that says he can't be a nominee. It's only an issue if he's elected and isn't eligible to hold office But, if votes for him are illegal and are recognized as such during the counting, then they shouldn't ever get into a situation where the results need to be contested. I also am not a fan of this way of proceeding. One other risk is that it may lead to an incomplete election if the organization requires a majority vote to elect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted July 30, 2020 at 04:10 PM Report Share Posted July 30, 2020 at 04:10 PM 5 minutes ago, Atul Kapur said: But, if votes for him are illegal and are recognized as such during the counting, then they shouldn't ever get into a situation where the results need to be contested. I also am not a fan of this way of proceeding. One other risk is that it may lead to an incomplete election if the organization requires a majority vote to elect. I think we all agree with the original poster that this could be a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rules Neophyte Posted July 30, 2020 at 04:20 PM Report Share Posted July 30, 2020 at 04:20 PM Thanks for your help, guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted July 31, 2020 at 12:16 AM Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 at 12:16 AM 10 hours ago, Atul Kapur said: I don't have the book in front of me, but isn't a vote for someone ineligible an illegal vote? Yes, but illegal votes do take votes from other candidates, and by raising the number of votes required to elect could make it harder for remaining legal votes to add up to a majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted July 31, 2020 at 12:19 AM Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 at 12:19 AM Thanks. That is what I meant when I said 8 hours ago, Atul Kapur said: One other risk is that it may lead to an incomplete election if the organization requires a majority vote to elect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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