Can a Board President serve as Committee Chair?

[JTW]

I read another thread where a commenter stated that a Board President can also serve as Committee Chair.

 

I searched this forum for other threads addressing this and haven't had any luck.

My Board of Education Bylaws don't explicitly state this to be true or false.  Is there a section of Robert's Rules that refers to this?

Thank you.

[Atul Kapur]

You may find this thread helpful. The answer here is the same even though your question is about chairing the committee rather than being a member of one.

 

[JTW]

Thank you, Atul Kapur.

Yes, I read this thread before that you are referring to. In our School Board, the President is ex-officio of all Standing Committees. 

I just would like to know if the President can also serve as Chairperson of committees.

Thanks Atul.

 

[Dan Honemann]

19 minutes ago, JTW said:

Thank you, Atul Kapur.

Yes, I read this thread before that you are referring to. In our School Board, the President is ex-officio of all Standing Committees. 

I just would like to know if the President can also serve as Chairperson of committees.

Thanks Atul.

 

Nothing in RONR says that he can't.

[JTW]

Thank you Daniel Honemann.

I was hoping to find some text that explicitly said one way or the other. I was also hoping to avoid further debate on this. Ha. Oh well...

[JTW]

I thinl the real issue is if an ex-officio Committee member can also serve as Chairperson of that committee.

[Josh Martin]

47 minutes ago, JTW said:

I thinl the real issue is if an ex-officio Committee member can also serve as Chairperson of that committee.

No rule in RONR prohibits that either.

In addition, I might suggest reading FAQ #2. Although it answers a slightly different question, I think part of it is applicable here as well.

"Without exception, ex-officio members of boards and committees have exactly the same rights and privileges as do all other members, including, of course, the right to vote."

Edited August 15, 2020 at 03:22 PM by Josh Martin

[JTW]

14 hours ago, Josh Martin said:

"Without exception, ex-officio members of boards and committees have exactly the same rights and privileges as do all other members, including, of course, the right to vote."

Thanks Josh Martin.

[Rob Elsman]

RONR (11th ed.), p. 448.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 8/15/2020 at 10:32 AM, JTW said:

Thank you Daniel Honemann.

I was hoping to find some text that explicitly said one way or the other. I was also hoping to avoid further debate on this. Ha. Oh well...

Then clip and print Mr. Honemann's reply.  If you check, you'll see he's one of RONR's authors.  :

[JTW]

Thank you all.

[JTW]

On 8/16/2020 at 2:33 PM, Gary Novosielski said:

Then clip and print Mr. Honemann's reply.  If you check, you'll see he's one of RONR's authors.  :

I made mention of Mr. Honemann's reply.

The Board attorney told me that Mr. Honemann is not the Board's Attorney. Then the Board Attorney went on to say that if the Board President doesn't go along with the Board's wish to have the President "not" also serve as Chairman of that one Committee, that the School Board can just vote to disband the existing committee and re-form the same School Board Committee. Then the newly formed Committee will not include the Board President, which the Bylaws state is ex-officio of all committees.

I'm stunned and confused, to say the least....

[Joshua Katz]

17 minutes ago, JTW said:

The Board attorney told me that Mr. Honemann is not the Board's Attorney.

I suspect this is likely true. So is this a parliamentary argument or a legal one? If it's a legal question, you should listen to your attorney. The answers here are only applicable if the issue is what RONR says about something.

 

18 minutes ago, JTW said:

Then the Board Attorney went on to say that if the Board President doesn't go along with the Board's wish to have the President "not" also serve as Chairman of that one Committee, that the School Board can just vote to disband the existing committee and re-form the same School Board Committee. Then the newly formed Committee will not include the Board President, which the Bylaws state is ex-officio of all committees.

I am also confused.

[Richard Brown]

17 minutes ago, JTW said:

Then the newly formed Committee will not include the Board President, which the Bylaws state is ex-officio of all committees.

What is the exact, precise language that your bylaws use to say that the president is “ex officio of all committees”? Is that the exact language used in the bylaws? Or do they say he shall be ex officio a member of all committees or that he shall be ex officio chair of all committees?

if the bylaws do in fact say that the president is (or shall be) ex officio a member of all committees, then this provision cannot be negated by disbanding and re-creating the committee, assuming the board even has that ability. Unless there is some bylaw provision that provides an exception, the president will be ex officio a member of any newly created committees as well.

Note: even if the bylaws do use the exact phrase you provided regarding the president being “ex officio of all committees”, it seems clear to me that the intent and the only reasonable interpretation is that he be ex officio a member of all committees.  Disbanding and re-creating the committee will not change that.

The one thing we don’t know is what, if anything, your bylaws say about how the chairs of the committees are selected.  What do they say about that?
 

 

[JTW]

2 minutes ago, Joshua Katz said:

So is this a parliamentary argument or a legal one? If it's a legal question, you should listen to your attorney. The answers here are only applicable if the issue is what RONR says about something.

This is strictly a parliamentary argument.

It seems to me that bylaws are being twisted inside out to please the School Board majority (or so-called "will ot the board).

The Board approves bylaws in January 2020, only to later mangle them to fit what a new majority of Board Members feels fits their desires. No bylaws have been since revised to allow these actions.

[Richard Brown]

In my answer above I started to say and should have said that the only way I see for the board to remove the president from a particular committee is by amending the bylaws.

[JTW]

8 minutes ago, Richard Brown said:

What is the exact, precise language that your bylaws use to say that the president is “ex officio of all committees”?

"The President shall: Be an ex-officio member of all committees."

8 minutes ago, Richard Brown said:

The one thing we don’t know is what, if anything, your bylaws say about how the chairs of the committees are selected.  What do they say about that?

"The committee chairperson and members shall be appointed by the Board President."

Edited September 9, 2020 at 02:11 PM by JTW

[Richard Brown]

4 minutes ago, JTW said:

"The President shall: Be an ex-officio member of all committees."

"The committee chairperson and members shall be appointed by the Board President."

Then it sounds to me like the president is clearly ex officio a member of all committees, including the committee at issue, and that he has the right to appoint the committee chairs, which includes the right to appoint himself as chairman.

[JTW]

5 minutes ago, Richard Brown said:

In my answer above I started to say and should have said that the only way I see for the board to remove the president from a particular committee is by amending the bylaws.

If an amendment takes place, shouldn't it affect all committees? If the bylaw amendment only affected one committee, that seems to me that this is playing hopscotch with our bylaws (politics).

[Richard Brown]

Just now, JTW said:

If an amendment takes place, shouldn't it affect all committees? If the bylaw amendment only affected one committee, that seems to me that this is playing hopscotch with our bylaws (politics).

 It may be “.politics”, but the bylaws can be amended in any way that the membership desires. They certainly May amend the bylaws in a way that it affects only one committee.

[JTW]

1 minute ago, Richard Brown said:

 It may be “.politics”, but the bylaws can be amended in any way that the membership desires. They certainly May amend the bylaws in a way that it affects only one committee.

Okayyyy???

Thanks for the input Mr. Brown. I appreciate it.

[Josh Martin]

13 minutes ago, JTW said:

"The President shall: Be an ex-officio member of all committees."

"The committee chairperson and members shall be appointed by the Board President."

Based on these facts, the President is an ex-officio member of all committees, and the committee chairperson and all members are appointed by the Board President. That could include the Board President appointing himself as chairman of a committee.

So I don't see how "disbanding and re-creating the committee" (even assuming the board has that authority) would help anything, since the President would still be an ex-officio member of the committee and would still appoint the chairperson (which could be himself) and the other members of the committee.

If it is desired to not have the President be a member of (or appoint the members of) committees generally, or of particular committees, the organization is free to amend its bylaws.

12 minutes ago, JTW said:

If an amendment takes place, shouldn't it affect all committees? If the bylaw amendment only affected one committee, that seems to me that this is playing hopscotch with our bylaws (politics).

It is actually not that unusual for rules like this one to provide exceptions for certain committees. RONR suggests, for instance, that it may be prudent for such rules to exclude the nominating committee, and possibly also disciplinary committees. The organization is free to also exclude other committees if it wishes to do so.

[JTW]

4 minutes ago, Josh Martin said:

It is actually not that unusual for rules like this one to provide exceptions for certain committees. RONR suggests, for instance, that it may be prudent for such rules to exclude the nominating committee, and possibly also disciplinary committees. The organization is free to also exclude other committees if it wishes to do so.

The school board committee in question is a standing committee that meets monthly.for the past 40 years at least. It is not an overarching committee.

[Richard Brown]

9 minutes ago, JTW said:

The school board committee in question is a standing committee that meets monthly.for the past 40 years at least. It is not an overarching committee.

I understand, but that does not alter the fact that the board may amend the bylaws, assuming it has the authority to amend the bylaws, to make changes to only one committee regardless of how long it has been in existence or what its purpose is.

Edited September 9, 2020 at 02:48 PM by Richard Brown
Corrected typo

[JTW]

8 minutes ago, Richard Brown said:

I understand, but that does not alter the fact that the board may amend the bylaws, assuming it has the authority to amend the bylaws, to make changes to only one committee regardless of how long it has been in existence or what its purpose is.

I completely understand that also. I was just making it clear that it was a normal standing committee, even though it has no bearing on what this majority could or would do.