Ex-officio Members of Committees

[Patricia Holliday]

Our bylaws states that the "[Secretary] shall oversee the Technology Committee."  Does this makes the Secretary an ex-officio member of the that committee? We have several elected positions where the officer oversees a committee.

[Gary Novosielski]

1 hour ago, Patricia Holliday said:

Our bylaws states that the "[Secretary] shall oversee the Technology Committee."  Does this makes the Secretary an ex-officio member of the that committee? We have several elected positions where the officer oversees a committee.

Apparently, but I'm not certain what exactly is meant by "oversee".  Are those officers the chairs of their respective committees?  

Whatever they are, they are that ex officio, because the assigned position arises automatically out of the office they hold.

Edited September 6, 2020 at 05:24 AM by Gary Novosielski

[Rob Elsman]

I, too, am uncertain of the rights and duties of an "overseer".  It is likely time to modify the bylaw.

[Joshua Katz]

8 hours ago, Gary Novosielski said:

Apparently, but I'm not certain what exactly is meant by "oversee".  Are those officers the chairs of their respective committees?  

 

It's not apparent to me. I don't see how overseeing a committee implies membership in the committee.

[Richard Brown]

10 hours ago, Patricia Holliday said:

Our bylaws states that the "[Secretary] shall oversee the Technology Committee."  Does this makes the Secretary an ex-officio member of the that committee? We have several elected positions where the officer oversees a committee.

Agreeing with the previous answers, I am at a loss as to just what is meant by the phrase  “oversee the technology committee“. 
 

 However, you mentioned that other officers oversee other committees. Is there similar language when it comes to other Officers and committees?How is it handled  when it comes to those other officers and committees? As Mr. Novosielski asked, “are those officers serving as chairs of those committees?

It may well be that the officer is to serve essentially as some sort of a liaison between the committee and the organization and is to keep the Organization or the board apprised of the committee’s  activities. Of course, that would normally be the role of the committee chairman.
 

This appears to me to be a matter of bylaws interpretation, which is something only your organization can do for itself. Each organization must interpret its own bylaws. We cannot  do that for you, although with a little more information we might be able to provide a bit more guidance.

Edited September 6, 2020 at 02:22 PM by Richard Brown
Added “or the board” To the third paragraph and made a typographical correction

[Patricia Holliday]

1 hour ago, Joshua Katz said:

It's not apparent to me. I don't see how overseeing a committee implies membership in the committee.

These officers appear on the the reports as Committee members listed as Overseeing Officers. They also attend the meetings. The question arose when we were trying to determine quorum requirements.

[Joshua Katz]

20 minutes ago, Patricia Holliday said:

These officers appear on the the reports as Committee members listed as Overseeing Officers. They also attend the meetings. The question arose when we were trying to determine quorum requirements.

When attending the meetings, do they vote? It might be worthwhile for someone to raise a point of order, simply to get the organization to interpret the bylaw and decide what the answer is here.

So, two options. Either they are members, or not. If they are members, then they are members ex officio. As far as RONR is concerned, the first question about an ex officio member and quorum is whether or not they are under the authority of the organization. Organization officers pretty clearly are; they're not analogous to, for instance, a Mayor who is given an ex officio membership on the Government Relations Committee. An ex officio member counts towards quorum, with one exception: when the President is made an ex officio member of all committees, he does not count towards quorum. This is not that case, though, so they would count towards quorum, if they are members.

[Richard Brown]

The question is just not whether this officer or the other officers are committee members, it is also whether they are to serve as the chairmen of the committees by virtue of the fact that they are supposed to oversee the committee. It is the interpretation of the word oversee that is at issue.

@Patricia Holliday please quote for us precisely what the bylaws say about The various officers serving as members of or as overseers of the various committees. Please quote the relevant bylaws provisions verbatim, do not paraphrase.  

[Patricia Holliday]

I'm not sure if they vote.  We just began our sorority year and I just came into the Parliamentarian position and raised the quorum question to the Executive Board.  The ones that are the chairs definitely do and I am clear they are members of the committees they oversee.  The are all members of the organization.

[Richard Brown]

1 hour ago, Patricia Holliday said:

These officers appear on the the reports as Committee members listed as Overseeing Officers. They also attend the meetings. The question arose when we were trying to determine quorum requirements.

But what do your BYLAWS Say about the role of these officers with the various committees?

[Patricia Holliday]

2 minutes ago, Richard Brown said:

The question is just not whether this officer or the other officers are committee members, it is also whether they are to serve as the chairmen of the committees by virtue of the fact that they are supposed to oversee the committee. It is the interpretation of the word oversee that is at issue.

@Patricia Holliday please quote for us precisely what the bylaws say about The various officers serving as members of or as overseers of the various committees. Please quote the relevant bylaws provisions verbatim, do not paraphrase.  

Some are chairs but others are not.

For the First Vise President it states: "She shall oversee the Community Service/Social Action Committee. She shall oversee all committees that are not otherwise provided for (i.e. Ad-Hoc Committees."

For the Secretary it states: "She shall oversee the Technology Committee."

For the Recording Secretary it states: "She shall oversee and serve as the chair of the Public Relations Committee."

For the Parliamentarian it states: "She shall Chair all committees relative to the By-Laws.  She shall oversee the Standard Operating Procedures Committee.  She shall provide oversight to the Nominating Committee."

Those are samples of the type of language listed in the duties of elected officials.

[Patricia Holliday]

6 minutes ago, Richard Brown said:

But what do your BYLAWS Say about the role of these officers with the various committees?

The Bylaws are silent.

[Richard Brown]

4 hours ago, Rob Elsman said:

It is likely time to modify the bylaw.

I wholeheartedly agree!

[Richard Brown]

6 minutes ago, Patricia Holliday said:

The Bylaws are silent.

Well, not according to the quote from the bylaws that  you provided above!

[Richard Brown]

It appears to me that this is solely a matter of bylaws interpretation and is an issue which this organization must decide for itself. It appears from the quoted by law provisions that some officers serve as overseers of one or more committees and some serve as a chair of the committee. I don’t recall that they actually say whether any of these officers are members of the committees, But an officer who serves as chair of a committee is more than likely also a member of the committee. I suppose it is possible that a committee chair is not a member, but it is certainly not common.
 

In short, I think this is a bylaws interpretation issue which the organization has to resolve for itself. And I urge that the organization follow Mr. Elsman’s advice and amend its bylaws to clarify this issue.

[Joshua Katz]

37 minutes ago, Patricia Holliday said:

For the Secretary it states: "She shall oversee the Technology Committee."

For the Recording Secretary it states: "She shall oversee and serve as the chair of the Public Relations Committee."

For the Parliamentarian it states: "She shall Chair all committees relative to the By-Laws.  She shall oversee the Standard Operating Procedures Committee.  She shall provide oversight to the Nominating Committee."

 

Agreeing with the above, I'd just point out that, in my opinion, it looks like overseeing and chairing is not the same thing, since the bylaws sometimes use one, or the other, or both. I can't tell you what it means, but I think it would be hard to say that the bylaws uses them to mean the same thing.

[Atul Kapur]

12 minutes ago, Richard Brown said:

I suppose it is possible that a committee chair is not a member, but it is certainly not common.

I don't see anything in RONR (12th ed.) 13:17-18 that suggests that a person can chair a committee without being a member of it. Any such situation would need to be in the organization's own rules.

31 minutes ago, Patricia Holliday said:

For the Recording Secretary it states: "She shall oversee and serve as the chair of the Public Relations Committee."

From this example, it is clear that "oversee" is different from "chair." However, the question of whether "oversee" means that they are members of the committee is unclear.

@Patricia Holliday, I suggest you review RONR (12th ed.) 56:68 and particularly subsection (1) for recommendations on how to deal with ambiguities. It emphasizes trying to be in accordance with the intention of the society at the time, if you can determine that. And it also says that the bylaws should be amended to remove the ambiguity as soon as possible.

[Gary Novosielski]

Yes, it's apparent these bylaws are a bit of a dog's breakfast.  It's clear that in at least one case, a distinction is made between being a chair, and being an overseer, so we can assume that these are two distinct functions.  What we don't know is whether the Overseeing Officers are members of the committee with full rights, including the right to vote, which would imply that they would count toward a quorum.  It's entirely possible that anyone who once knew the answer is no longer available.

This should probably be a notation in your draft report on what is sure to be a growing list of clarifications that need to be made to the bylaws.  As parliamentarian, your advice on such matters may prove invaluable.  Good luck