Guest Deirdre Posted November 9, 2020 at 11:02 PM Report Share Posted November 9, 2020 at 11:02 PM Hello, I need assistance with the following. A motion was made with a contingency. That contingency cannot be met. The motion was made over a year ago. Since the contingency cannot be met, is the motion null and void? Do we have to rescind it? How do we cancel that motion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted November 10, 2020 at 12:34 AM Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 at 12:34 AM (edited) More information would be helpful, especially as to what do you mean by subject to a contingency. What kind of contingency? An organization may rescind a motion previously adopted by doing just that: using the “motion to rescind (or amend) something previously adopted”. It requires a 2/3 vote or the vote of a majority of the entire membership unless previous notice of the motion was given, in which case it may be adopted by a regular majority vote. Giving previous notice means making an announcement at the previous meeting or by including it in the notice of the meeting. There are certain limitations on its use. For example, you cannot rescind something which has already been carried out, but you may rescind it as to any portions that have not been carried out. Edited November 10, 2020 at 12:35 AM by Richard Brown Typographical correction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted November 10, 2020 at 03:07 AM Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 at 03:07 AM It depends on the nature of the contingency and whether the motion is still in force and effect. Is it impossible for that contingency to be met (eg: "That, if we receive a message from the Klingon Empire by October 31, 2020, we will...") then the motion is no longer in force and effect. No action is necessary to rescind it. If the contingency could still possibly occur (no matter how unlikely that possibility is), then the motion is still in force and effect. For example, a motion "That, if we receive a message from the Klingon Empire, we will..." is still in effect, no matter how long ago it was adopted (even if it was as far back as 1966). If you no longer want to do that, then you would need to rescind the motion, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkrogue Posted November 10, 2020 at 05:16 AM Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 at 05:16 AM (edited) Hi Richard and Atul. I posted as a guest and then created an account - sorry for the confusion and thank you for replying. A motion was made to move funds to a charitable foundation contingent upon consultation with an attorney and confirmation that the funds could be transferred back in the future. The foundation is a 501c3. Legal guidance has been provided and we cannot simply transfer the funds back from the foundation to the organization. We would need to apply for a grant to get the funds back and there are restrictions on what we could then use the funds for. There is also nothing on the foundation side that preserves those funds for our organization. We have not transferred any monies as it took time to get the legal guidance. Now it has been a year since the original motion was made. Based on the fact we have not moved any funds and we can never transfer the money back as stated in the motion - do you both agree that no action is necessary and the motion is no longer in force? And if so - what is the right language to use in communicating this to our membership? Is it null and void or no longer in force because the contingency can never be met as stated? Thanks again! Deirdre Edited November 10, 2020 at 05:20 AM by dkrogue Connecting my guest post with my account comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted November 10, 2020 at 07:37 AM Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 at 07:37 AM This information could be provided to the membership through an officer's report or the board report. Inform them that the condition ("confirmation that the funds could be transferred back in the future") could not be met. I don't think that you need to take any formal action to rescind this motion. You could. Someone could also propose a motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted to change the condition or suggest a different use of the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkrogue Posted November 10, 2020 at 03:25 PM Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 at 03:25 PM Excellent - thank you both for your speedy replies and assistance! Much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkrogue Posted November 16, 2020 at 07:54 PM Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 at 07:54 PM Can you point me to the rule # and description of this in RROO? I'm not finding this specific scenario and will need backup for our discussion tomorrow. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted November 16, 2020 at 08:53 PM Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 at 08:53 PM (edited) 2 hours ago, dkrogue said: Can you point me to the rule # and description of this in RROO? I'm not finding this specific scenario and will need backup for our discussion tomorrow. Thanks! Assuming there is an applicable motion to rescind or amend, see §35, beginning on p. 288 of RONR (12th ed.). Edited November 16, 2020 at 10:01 PM by George Mervosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkrogue Posted November 16, 2020 at 10:14 PM Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 at 10:14 PM Hi George - I'm not seeing what I need there. It is talking about adjourn motions. The motion I outlined above is not a motion related in any way to managing a meeting. I'm specifically looking for language regarding what happens when a motion's contingency cannot be met. Where is it documented that the motion is no longer in effect? Thanks! I really appreciate everyone's help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted November 17, 2020 at 01:52 AM Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 at 01:52 AM (edited) 3 hours ago, dkrogue said: Hi George - I'm not seeing what I need there. It is talking about adjourn motions. The motion I outlined above is not a motion related in any way to managing a meeting. I'm specifically looking for language regarding what happens when a motion's contingency cannot be met. Where is it documented that the motion is no longer in effect? Thanks! I really appreciate everyone's help. Are you looking at the 12th edition of Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised (2020)? Edited November 17, 2020 at 01:52 AM by J. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted November 17, 2020 at 01:54 AM Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 at 01:54 AM I'm not sure where you are looking. §35 is titled "RESCIND; AMEND SOMETHING PREVIOUSLY ADOPTED". (it's the same section in the 11th edition) It sounds like you prefer the certainty of rescinding the motion. The motion to do that can be as simple as "That the motion to move funds to a charitable foundation, adopted on [date] be rescinded." You can describe the reasons when you debate the motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkrogue Posted November 17, 2020 at 04:49 AM Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 at 04:49 AM Actually, we would prefer not to have to rescind based on the process. And based on the situation, it could be possible that the motion to rescind would fail. But since the contingency as stated would be illegal - we must help everyone to understand that the motion is no longer in effect. What I'm looking for is something in black and white that supports that direction. Is there any section that clearly speaks to this specific approach and reasoning? I am referencing the 12th edition and see section 35 referring to rescinding etc. It was the page number that confused me - viewing on my mobile device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted November 17, 2020 at 02:06 PM Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 at 02:06 PM (edited) 9 hours ago, dkrogue said: Is there any section that clearly speaks to this specific approach and reasoning? No, because it is specific to your motion, its wording, and your situation; rather than a rule of order or principle that applies generally. So you're back to the excellent advice that was given earlier and which I've quoted in the next post. Edited November 17, 2020 at 02:10 PM by Atul Kapur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted November 17, 2020 at 02:09 PM Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 at 02:09 PM On 11/10/2020 at 2:37 AM, Atul Kapur said: This information could be provided to the membership through an officer's report or the board report. Inform them that the condition ("confirmation that the funds could be transferred back in the future") could not be met. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkrogue Posted November 17, 2020 at 03:09 PM Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 at 03:09 PM Thank you Atul! 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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