President Vacancy, President-Elect terms

[PaulB25]

 

Our organization follows the structure of President, President-Elect, and Immediate-Past President. Terms are for two-years with the membership electing the President-Elect on even-numbered years (last elected on 2020). Unfortunately, we had a President resign 7 months into their term. The President-elect immediately assumed their role and is currently serving the remainder of their unexpired term which is until 2022. The President-Elect seat is currently vacant but our bylaws permits us to fill the seat at our next annual business meeting held in August.  The discussion now is, which appears to be 2 different thoughts:

• Do we elect a person to fill the original unexpired term of President-elect which would only be a 1 year term until we elect another President-Elect in 2022 (of which they would assume the President seat then and the previous President's term is cut short) or;
• Do we elect a person for a 3 year term to fill the unexpired term but also allow the acting President (former President-elect) to complete the vacancy and also serve their original two year term of President which was intended to be 2022-2024.

Edited March 28, 2021 at 04:54 PM by PaulB25

[Atul Kapur]

Probably a mixture of the two, but the answer will hopefully be found in your own bylaws.

When I say "a mixture", I expect that you will find that your current president completes the term that they are filling as a vacancy and then serves their own term as president from 2022-2024. The person who is chosen to fill the vacancy in the president-elect office would serve until the 2022 meeting when a new president-elect is chosen.

But, that is idle speculation without seeing your bylaws.

[Richard Brown]

16 minutes ago, Atul Kapur said:

Probably a mixture of the two, but the answer will hopefully be found in your own bylaws.

When I say "a mixture", I expect that you will find that your current president completes the term that they are filling as a vacancy and then serves their own term as president from 2022-2024. The person who is chosen to fill the vacancy in the president-elect office would serve until the 2022 meeting when a new president-elect is chosen.

But, that is idle speculation without seeing your bylaws.

Without having read the bylaws either, I agree.

[PaulB25]

27 minutes ago, Richard Brown said:

Without having read the bylaws either, I agree.

 

45 minutes ago, Atul Kapur said:

Probably a mixture of the two, but the answer will hopefully be found in your own bylaws.

When I say "a mixture", I expect that you will find that your current president completes the term that they are filling as a vacancy and then serves their own term as president from 2022-2024. The person who is chosen to fill the vacancy in the president-elect office would serve until the 2022 meeting when a new president-elect is chosen.

But, that is idle speculation without seeing your bylaws.

So would the person elected this year only serve of 1 year in it's vacancy? Doesn't becoming President-Elect grant them to assume the President seat in 2022? Could this individual re-run in 2022? 

[Atul Kapur]

It appears that my idle speculation distracted from the main message, which was and is that the answers to these questions will, or at least should, be found within your own bylaws. You will want to review them in their entirety, but start with the articles regarding officers, elections, and filling of vacancies.

My idle speculation was based on the more common provisions that I have seen in various organizations' bylaws, but I labelled it as "idle speculation" because I make no assumptions about what are in yours.

[Gary Novosielski]

4 hours ago, PaulB25 said:

 

Our very small organization follows the structure of President, President-Elect, and Immediate-Past President. Terms are for two-years with the membership electing the President-Elect on even-numbered years (last elected on 2020). Unfortunately, we had a President resign 7 months into their term. The President-elect immediately assumed their role and is currently serving the remainder of their unexpired term which is until 2022. The President-Elect seat is currently vacant but our bylaws permits us to fill the seat at our next annual business meeting held in August.  The discussion now is, which appears to be 2 different thoughts:

• Do we elect a person to fill the original unexpired term of President-elect which would only be a 1 year term until we elect another President-Elect in 2022 (of which they would assume the President seat then and the previous President's term is cut short) or;
• Do we elect a person for a 3 year term to fill the unexpired term but also allow the acting President (former President-elect) to complete the vacancy and also serve their original two year term of President which was intended to be 2022-2024.

As others have noted, the answer will ideally be found elsewhere in your bylaws.

If not, the default rule in RONR is that when vacancies occur, filling those vacancies does not change the ending date of the term.  Since it appears that in your rules this is the case for filling the office of president, there is good reason to believe it would apply to the office of president-elect.

[Guest Puzzling]

1 hour ago, Gary Novosielski said:

As others have noted, the answer will ideally be found elsewhere in your bylaws.

If not, the default rule in RONR is that when vacancies occur, filling those vacancies does not change the ending date of the term.  Since it appears that in your rules this is the case for filling the office of president, there is good reason to believe it would apply to the office of president-elect.

I thought that under RONR there can be separate offices of vice president and president elect. If the post of president becomes vacant it is filled by the vice-president not the president elect, the president elect only gets into office after the (normal) term of the sitting president ends.

Depending on what the bylaws state it can be the case that it is an office that combines both Vice-President and president-elect functions in that case the 7 months that this officer takes over as sitting president would not change the fact that he will also be president for the next full term.

But I am speculating here

[Richard Brown]

1 hour ago, Guest Puzzling said:

I thought that under RONR there can be separate offices of vice president and president elect. If the post of president becomes vacant it is filled by the vice-president not the president elect, the president elect only gets into office after the (normal) term of the sitting president ends.

 

1 hour ago, Guest Puzzling said:

But I am speculating here

Yes you are, and we should not be doing that. In fact, RONR itself says that where there is a president elect, it is common usual for the bylaws to provide for that person, rather than a vice president, to succeed to the presidency in the event of a vacancy in the office of president.

Edited March 28, 2021 at 12:51 AM by Richard Brown
Changed the word "common" to "usual" per the way the term is used in 47:22 of RONR (12th ed.)

[Gary Novosielski]

4 hours ago, Guest Puzzling said:

I thought that under RONR there can be separate offices of vice president and president elect. If the post of president becomes vacant it is filled by the vice-president not the president elect, the president elect only gets into office after the (normal) term of the sitting president ends.

Depending on what the bylaws state it can be the case that it is an office that combines both Vice-President and president-elect functions in that case the 7 months that this officer takes over as sitting president would not change the fact that he will also be president for the next full term.

But I am speculating here

Yes, but the OP iseemed to indicate that their structure did not include a VP.  Beyond that I'm unwilling to speculate, having not read their bylaws.

Edited March 28, 2021 at 04:27 AM by Gary Novosielski

[PaulB25]

On 3/27/2021 at 5:10 PM, Atul Kapur said:

It appears that my idle speculation distracted from the main message, which was and is that the answers to these questions will, or at least should, be found within your own bylaws. You will want to review them in their entirety, but start with the articles regarding officers, elections, and filling of vacancies.

My idle speculation was based on the more common provisions that I have seen in various organizations' bylaws, but I labelled it as "idle speculation" because I make no assumptions about what are in yours.

Thank you everyone for your comments.

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2021 at 07:01 AM by PaulB25

[Atul Kapur]

Your original first option was: 

On 3/27/2021 at 1:24 PM, PaulB25 said:

Do we elect a person to fill the original unexpired term of President-elect which would only be a 1 year term until we elect another President-Elect in 2022

But you quote your bylaws as saying:

4 hours ago, PaulB25 said:

..."if there is a vacancy in the office of President-Elect. That office shall remain vacant prior to the next Annual Meeting at which time a candidate shall be elected for the office of President-Elect.

Assuming that "That office" refers to the office of president-elect, then it looks like this president-elect office remains vacant until the new one is elected in 2022. This is despite the bylaw provision about "any vacancy occurring in the Board of Directors" because of Principle of Interpretation 55:68(3): "A general statement or rule is always of less authority than a specific statement or rule and yields to it."

So it looks like, 

• The current president (who was elected as president-elect in 2020 and became the president 7 months later). This 2020-2022 term counts as one term.
• The president-elect office remains vacant until 2022 when the annual meeting elects a new president-elect.
• The second bullet suggests that the current president goes on to serve their normal term as president for the 2022-2024 period.

Again, this is based solely upon the excerpts that you have provided. You may benefit from having a professional parliamentarian provide a parliamentary opinion, which should include a review of all relevant documents.

[PaulB25]

18 minutes ago, Atul Kapur said:

Your original first option was: 

But you quote your bylaws as saying:

Assuming that "That office" refers to the office of president-elect, then it looks like this president-elect office remains vacant until the new one is elected in 2022. This is despite the bylaw provision about "any vacancy occurring in the Board of Directors" because of Principle of Interpretation 55:68(3): "A general statement or rule is always of less authority than a specific statement or rule and yields to it."

So it looks like, 

• The current president (who was elected as president-elect in 2020 and became the president 7 months later). This 2020-2022 term counts as one term.
• The president-elect office remains vacant until 2022 when the annual meeting elects a new president-elect.
• The second bullet suggests that the current president goes on to serve their normal term as president for the 2022-2024 period.

Again, this is based solely upon the excerpts that you have provided. You may benefit from having a professional parliamentarian provide a parliamentary opinion, which should include a review of all relevant documents.

Thank you so much for your thoughtful response. I think it would be helpful to reach out to a professional parlimentarian to gain clarity on this scenario and review our entire document. Appreciate the feedback!

[Guest martimcg]

Our Bylaws gives power to the President to appoint vacancies on the Executive Board.

What does RR say about the rules for these positions to be presented and approved by the majority vote of a quorum present at a Board Meeting..

 

[Bruce Lages]

Guest martimcg - please submit your question as a new topic, even if you think it is related to this one. Use the blue "start new topic" button at the top right of the general discussion home page. Thanks.