Can a motion be converted to a ballot?

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

For example, if someone moves to do X can that motion be amended to be to choose X or Y?

[Josh Martin]

16 minutes ago, Caryn Ann Harlos said:

For example, if someone moves to do X can that motion be amended to be to choose X or Y?

It depends on what X and Y are.

If X and Y are very simple matters such as amounts of money, colors, names of people, etc., a procedure similar to this could be accomplished through the procedure of filling blanks, although the assembly's choices are not limited to X and Y. An amendment would be offered to strike "X" and insert a blank. Suggestions to fill the blank would be offered and the assembly would vote on which choice would fill the blank. A vote by ballot would be one option. In that event, members would vote for the suggestion of their choice (and write-ins are in order). The choice which obtains majority support would fill the blank.

On the other hand, if X and Y are more complicated than the examples noted above, then what should be done instead is to perfect X through the amendment process. So a member might move to amend the motion so that it would be Y instead. The motion would be subject to further debate and amendment. The main motion and/or one of the amendments may well still be voted on by ballot, but the options would be "Yes" or "No" on the motion currently pending before the assembly rather than asking members "to choose X or Y."

Edited April 15, 2021 at 02:27 AM by Josh Martin

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

I was also thinking a substitution might work.

[Richard Brown]

28 minutes ago, Caryn Ann Harlos said:

I was also thinking a substitution might work.

I am, too, although all of the methods suggested by Josh will work.  Filling blanks strikes me as perhaps the simplest and the easiest for the members to understand.  For example, if trying to decide where to hold your next convention, the choices suggested for filling a blank could be New Orleans, LA and Orlando, FL.  You first vote on the choices to fill the blank and then on the motion to hold the convention in XXX city once the preferred city is determined.  There could actually be several cities suggested for the blank.

Doing it as a substitute motion (or even just by striking one city and inserting the other one in the main motion) will also  work.

[Dan Honemann]

7 hours ago, Richard Brown said:

I am, too, although all of the methods suggested by Josh will work.  Filling blanks strikes me as perhaps the simplest and the easiest for the members to understand.  For example, if trying to decide where to hold your next convention, the choices suggested for filling a blank could be New Orleans, LA and Orlando, FL.  You first vote on the choices to fill the blank and then on the motion to hold the convention in XXX city once the preferred city is determined.  There could actually be several cities suggested for the blank.

Deciding where to hold the next convention may not be a good example to use as an instance in which employment of the device of filing a blank would be appropriate. Most likely the bylaws call for holding a convention at specified intervals, in which event, if the location is contested, an election would be held. If the election is by ballot, the ballot might look something like the one found in RONR, 12th ed., 45:24 (question No. 2).

[Josh Martin]

9 hours ago, Caryn Ann Harlos said:

I was also thinking a substitution might work.

Certainly. A substitute is a particular form of amendment.

9 hours ago, Richard Brown said:

I am, too, although all of the methods suggested by Josh will work.  Filling blanks strikes me as perhaps the simplest and the easiest for the members to understand.  

I agree that filling blanks would be "perhaps the simplest and the easiest," provided that the items in question are of a nature where such a procedure would be appropriate. I have no idea what X and Y are referring to in this question, so I do not know whether or not the items are of such a nature.

[Rob Elsman]

It is certainly possible to Create a Blank by Striking Out, RONR (12th ed.) 12:95, if the "X" is of the nature of items like those listed in RONR (12th ed.) 12:106-111.  When the procedure for filling blanks is not appropriate, a subsidiary motion to Amend the main motion can be used to modify "X" by striking out "X" and inserting "Y", RONR (12th ed.) 12:56 or 12:82, as the case may be.

There is no procedure in RONR for choosing between multiple, independent proposals, "X" and "Y", side-by-side, so to speak.  The hierarchical ranked motions and the order of precedence should be adhered to.