Ambiguous Motion

[Guest Karen]

My organization needs to decide whether or not to take in new members this program year.  The Membership committee did an assessment and wants to make their recommendation a motion to "NOT" conduct an induction of new members this program year.  How do we word the motion such that it is not an ambiguous negative statement of what we don't want to do?  A motion is necessary to conduct the vote.

 

[Gary Novosielski]

On 10/6/2021 at 1:45 AM, Guest Karen said:

My organization needs to decide whether or not to take in new members this program year.  The Membership committee did an assessment and wants to make their recommendation a motion to "NOT" conduct an induction of new members this program year.  How do we word the motion such that it is not an ambiguous negative statement of what we don't want to do?  A motion is necessary to conduct the vote.

 

The motion would be "to conduct an induction of new members this program year."

And recommend a No vote on the motion.

[Weldon Merritt]

On 10/6/2021 at 1:36 AM, Gary Novosielski said:

The motion would be "to conduct an induction of new members this program year."

And recommend a No vote on the motion.

I concur, assuming any motion would be necessary. But what is the default? In other words, what would happen if no motion at all was adopted? If the default is that members are inducted only if a motion to do so is adopted, then the desired result (no induction) would be accomplished by simply not adopting any motion. 

[Guest Karen]

This is what was proposed as a motion.  Will it work?

"The Membership committee recommends that the chapter "Oppose" having a New member Induction process this FY 21-22 Program Year.  Is the chapter in agreement  with the recommendation of the Membership Committee?"

[Guest Karen]

On 10/6/2021 at 8:45 AM, Weldon Merritt said:

I concur, assuming any motion would be necessary. But what is the default? In other words, what would happen if no motion at all was adopted? If the default is that members are inducted only if a motion to do so is adopted, then the desired result (no induction) would be accomplished by simply not adopting any motion. 

The bylaws state that new members shall be inducted at a certain time of the year.  No other language on induction of new members is in the bylaws. 

[Tom Coronite]

Wait? What? Do your bylaws say there SHALL be a member induction, and it’s to be done at a certain time of year? Or do they say IF there is to be a member induction, it SHALL be done at a certain time of year?

[Dan Honemann]

On 10/6/2021 at 1:26 PM, Guest Karen said:

This is what was proposed as a motion.  Will it work?

"The Membership committee recommends that the chapter "Oppose" having a New member Induction process this FY 21-22 Program Year.  Is the chapter in agreement  with the recommendation of the Membership Committee?"

How about something like this:

COMMITTEE'S REPORTING MEMBER:  "The Membership Committee recommends that the Chapter conduct no new member Induction process this FY 21-22 Program Year. By direction of the Committee, and on its behalf, I move that the Chapter agree to the recommendation of the Membership Committee."

[George Mervosh]

Mr. Honemann needs to increase his fee for script writing.  

[Guest Karen]

On 10/6/2021 at 1:16 PM, Dan Honemann said:

How about something like this:

COMMITTEE'S REPORTING MEMBER:  "The Membership Committee recommends that the Chapter conduct no new member Induction process this FY 21-22 Program Year. By direction of the Committee, and on its behalf, I move that the Chapter agree to the recommendation of the Membership Committee."

Okay.  And what shall the ballot say?

[Atul Kapur]

On 10/6/2021 at 2:16 PM, Dan Honemann said:

How about something like this:

COMMITTEE'S REPORTING MEMBER:  "The Membership Committee recommends that the Chapter conduct no new member Induction process this FY 21-22 Program Year. By direction of the Committee, and on its behalf, I move that the Chapter agree to the recommendation of the Membership Committee."

And, if the chapter defeats the motion, would they then have to conduct an induction process? Are you seeing that as a default requirement in the information the OP has provided? 

[Dan Honemann]

On 10/6/2021 at 4:22 PM, Guest Karen said:

Okay.  And what shall the ballot say?

What ballot?

[Dan Honemann]

On 10/6/2021 at 4:28 PM, Atul Kapur said:

And, if the chapter defeats the motion, would they then have to conduct an induction process? Are you seeing that as a default requirement in the information the OP has provided? 

No. Failure to agree to or concur with the committee's recommendation does not commit the Chapter to do anything.

[Atul Kapur]

Then please help me understand why the motion worded as you suggest doesn't fall afoul of 10:11. In the absence of a default requirement to conduct an induction process, what purpose is served by adoption of such a motion? 

[Tom Coronite]

On 10/6/2021 at 1:31 PM, Guest Karen said:

The bylaws state that new members shall be inducted at a certain time of the year.

 

On 10/6/2021 at 4:31 PM, Dan Honemann said:

Failure to agree to or concur with the committee's recommendation does not commit the Chapter to do anything.

I absolutely see what Mr. Honemann is saying. But I’m wondering if their bylaws compel them to do something. A new member induction, at a certain time of year, to be precise. I suppose the devil is in the details of the bylaw wording.

[Guest Karen]

On 10/6/2021 at 3:28 PM, Dan Honemann said:

What ballot?

The decision is made by secret vote.  The member must vote for or against the motion.

[Guest Karen]

On 10/6/2021 at 3:49 PM, Atul Kapur said:

Then please help me understand why the motion worded as you suggest doesn't fall afoul of 10:11. In the absence of a default requirement to conduct an induction process, what purpose is served by adoption of such a motion? 

I agree.  I think the Membership committee should just state that after the assessment they do not recommend that the chapter conduct new member induction.  No motion is needed for that.   However the chapter makes the decision by secret vote.  So what statement should be made to vote upon?

Perhaps..."Shall the chapter conduct a new member induction?"  But provide another statement that the Membership committee does not recommend the intake of new members in this program year.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 10/6/2021 at 6:44 PM, Guest Karen said:

I agree.  I think the Membership committee should just state that after the assessment they do not recommend that the chapter conduct new member induction.  No motion is needed for that.   However the chapter makes the decision by secret vote.  So what statement should be made to vote upon?

Perhaps..."Shall the chapter conduct a new member induction?"  But provide another statement that the Membership committee does not recommend the intake of new members in this program year.

I think that's what I said in the first reply.  But it was so long ago.

[Dan Honemann]

On 10/6/2021 at 4:49 PM, Atul Kapur said:

Then please help me understand why the motion worded as you suggest doesn't fall afoul of 10:11. In the absence of a default requirement to conduct an induction process, what purpose is served by adoption of such a motion? 

But Guest Karen keeps insinuating that some decision must be made with respect to the induction of new members. I agree that if nothing at all need be done with respect to this, then doing nothing at all would be best.