Ballot wording in bylaws

[AFS1970]

As part of our long but almost finished revision of the by-laws we found an odd rule for our annual meeting. There is a list of 15 voting rules governing elections but one has some wording that I think is incorrect as far as RONR and is generally a bad idea in general. 

9. The secretary shall, prior to the annual meeting, have ballots printed with the names of candidates, and the position they are running for, and the option of abstention.

My first question is if w should even have an option to mark an abstention, since I have always thought of abstentions as not voting at all. My second question would be if we need to require a place for write ins on the ballot.

As background I have only seen the written abstention used last year, it seems to have been forgotten about in previous years. There is a story from one of our senior members about the night all but one person wrote abstain on their ballots and how that (incorrectly) effected the election. I have seen in previous years where the ballots were handwritten and not printed, but I think that might be a minor quibble at best. 

 

[Joshua Katz]

On 10/24/2021 at 6:24 PM, AFS1970 said:

wording that I think is incorrect as far as RONR

Well, that is immaterial. RONR doesn't tell you what to put in your bylaws.

On 10/24/2021 at 6:24 PM, AFS1970 said:

My first question is if w should even have an option to mark an abstention, since I have always thought of abstentions as not voting at all.

You are correct, and no, you shouldn't. 

On 10/24/2021 at 6:24 PM, AFS1970 said:

My second question would be if we need to require a place for write ins on the ballot.

Well, unless your rules say otherwise, you need to allow write-ins. But that's not the same thing as requiring a place for them on the ballot, per se. You could just tell people "write in at the bottom" or something of that sort. The rule is to count them. In practice, yes, it would be nice, if you're printing ballots, to include a line or some such for write-ins.

On 10/24/2021 at 6:24 PM, AFS1970 said:

There is a story from one of our senior members about the night all but one person wrote abstain on their ballots and how that (incorrectly) effected the election.

Well, if the point of the story is that someone wrote abstain on a ballot and the tellers treated that incorrectly, I don't see how putting a box for it on the ballot helps. What you need is better trained tellers.

On 10/24/2021 at 6:24 PM, AFS1970 said:

I have seen in previous years where the ballots were handwritten and not printed, but I think that might be a minor quibble at best. 

Well, minor quibble or not, it's way too late to raise a point of order.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 10/24/2021 at 6:24 PM, AFS1970 said:

As part of our long but almost finished revision of the by-laws we found an odd rule for our annual meeting. There is a list of 15 voting rules governing elections but one has some wording that I think is incorrect as far as RONR and is generally a bad idea in general. 

9. The secretary shall, prior to the annual meeting, have ballots printed with the names of candidates, and the position they are running for, and the option of abstention.

My first question is if w should even have an option to mark an abstention, since I have always thought of abstentions as not voting at all. My second question would be if we need to require a place for write ins on the ballot.

As background I have only seen the written abstention used last year, it seems to have been forgotten about in previous years. There is a story from one of our senior members about the night all but one person wrote abstain on their ballots and how that (incorrectly) effected the election. I have seen in previous years where the ballots were handwritten and not printed, but I think that might be a minor quibble at best. 

 

Yes, you should have an option to mark an abstention, because your bylaws require it. (I'd recommend changing that, but it is what it is.)

You are correct that abstentions are not votes and should not be counted as such.  So, a mark of Abstain should be treated the same as if the choice had  been left blank. And any ballot which has no mark for any choice nor for Abstain should also be treated the same way.  Both are abstentions, and are treated identically.

The ballot should contain a space for write-ins for each office.  It is not necessary to amend the bylaws to include that provision, since the rules in RONR are enough to authorize (and arguably to require) doing so, unless explicitly prohibited i in your bylaws.

[Richard Brown]

On 10/24/2021 at 5:24 PM, AFS1970 said:

9. The secretary shall, prior to the annual meeting, have ballots printed with the names of candidates, and the position they are running for, and the option of abstention.

My first question is if w should even have an option to mark an abstention, since I have always thought of abstentions as not voting at all. My second question would be if we need to require a place for write ins on the ballot.

I agree with the comment by Mr. Novosielski above and disagree with my Friend Joshua Katz.  There is nothing wrong having an option to abstain printed on the ballot.  Personally, I think it is sometimes a good idea because sometimes members don't realize they have the option of abstaining, but RONR is silent on the issue. I will note, however, that in a recent thread within the past few months Shmuel Gerber, a member of the RONR authorship team, opined that he thinks it is a good idea to have an option to abstain on email or electronic ballots. I see no reason for treating the options on those ballots differently from in-person paper ballots.

I also believe that it is a good idea to have a line for a write in candidate on a ballot.  Again, however, RONR is silent on this point.

[Dan Honemann]

On 10/25/2021 at 11:11 AM, Richard Brown said:

I also believe that it is a good idea to have a line for a write in candidate on a ballot.  Again, however, RONR is silent on this point.

Well, perhaps not totally silent. A space for a write-in vote is provided in the form of ballot shown in 45:24, and there is a requirement that provision be made to allow voters to cast write-in votes if electronic devices are to be used for voting (45:42.

[Richard Brown]

On 10/25/2021 at 11:05 AM, Dan Honemann said:

Well, perhaps not totally silent. A space for a write-in vote is provided in the form of ballot shown in 45:24, and there is a requirement that provision be made to allow voters to cast write-in votes if electronic devices are to be used for voting (45:42.

Yes, I agree.  I looked at the sample ballot in 45:24 as I was responding, but decided not to include a reference to it because it was not a "candidate election" ballot but rather a ballot for the selection of a city for the next convention.  That could be the result of motion to create or fill a blank.  If it had been a sample ballot for a candidate election, I  would have made a reference to it.

[Dan Honemann]

On 10/26/2021 at 11:27 AM, Richard Brown said:

Yes, I agree.  I looked at the sample ballot in 45:24 as I was responding, but decided not to include a reference to it because it was not a "candidate election" ballot but rather a ballot for the selection of a city for the next convention.  That could be the result of motion to create or fill a blank.  If it had been a sample ballot for a candidate election, I  would have made a reference to it.

I do not understand this distinction you seem to be making between a ballot for a "candidate election" and the sample ballot in 45:24. The sample ballot is for the selection of a city for the next convention. Seattle and New Orleans were the two "candidates" nominated, were they not?