How to count abstaining and recusal votes

[Guest John Lee]

I am a reporter for the NPR affiliate in Baltimore, MD. I am working on a story regarding a vote by the Baltimore County School Board. The board uses Robert's Rules. The board has 12 members. 7 votes are needed to pass an item, in this case approving an employee contract. Currently there is a vacancy on the board, so there are 11 people voting. 6 voted yes on the contract. No one voted no. Three abstained. Two recused. So the contract was not renewed, since they did not get 7 votes. My question is, is this a valid vote? If abstained and recused votes are not technically counted, did they then not have enough available votes (7) to make it valid? Thank you.

[George Mervosh]

With 11 members present they certainly had enough members present to achieve a threshold of 7 votes.  But since only 6 voted yes the motion is defeated.  Sometimes choosing to abstain affects the result of the vote.  Also, under the rules in RONR no one is required to recuse themselves so the two must have done so due to another rule applicable to the board.  Nothing seems improper here based on your facts.

[Richard Brown]

On 6/9/2022 at 1:37 PM, Guest John Lee said:

The board has 12 members. 7 votes are needed to pass an item, in this case approving an employee contract. Currently there is a vacancy on the board, so there are 11 people voting.

What, EXACTLY, do the rules or governing law say about the vote required to adopt such a motion or to approve such a contract?  Does the rule actually specify that seven votes shall be required?  Or does the rule perhaps say that the vote of a majority of the entire board is required?  Or perhaps a majority of  the full authorized membership (or fixed membership) of the board?

We really need to know the EXACT LANGUAGE of the rule requiring the vote required.  It is common for pubic bodies to specify that the vote of the majority of the authorized membership  of a board (or other public body) is required.  If that is what the rule says, then seven votes are required regardless of vacancies.  But if the rule says that the vote of a majority of the board or of the entire board is required and the board has one vacancy, then six yes votes is indeed the vote of a majority of the board.

So, please give us the exact language of the pertinent rule, ordinance or statute.

[George Mervosh]

I agree with Mr. Brown.  I took Mr. Lee quite literally when he said 7 votes were required to adopt.  More information will provide a more accurate response to be sure.

[Atul Kapur]

On 6/9/2022 at 2:37 PM, Guest John Lee said:

The board uses Robert's Rules. The board has 12 members. 7 votes are needed to pass an item

Let's stop here for a moment. It sounds like the board has a special rule that overrides RONR in this situation. RONR says that the requirement is that more people have to vote in favour than vote opposed. There is no minimum number of votes required in RONR as only those "present and voting" are counted.

Does this board's rules require a majority of the entire membership (i.e. 7 of the 12) or does it specify 7 affirmative votes are required?

On 6/9/2022 at 2:37 PM, Guest John Lee said:

Currently there is a vacancy on the board, so there are 11 people voting

Do the board's rules require a majority of the membership (currently, that would be 6 of 11) or of the full number of positions (7 of 12)?

On 6/9/2022 at 2:37 PM, Guest John Lee said:

6 voted yes on the contract. No one voted no. Three abstained

As said above, under the usual rules in RONR, this is enough to adopt the motion.

On 6/9/2022 at 2:37 PM, Guest John Lee said:

Two recused

RONR does not have recusal; although it says there are occasions where a member should not vote, it states a member cannot be prevented from voting.

Many public bodies operate under rules (their own or from a higher-level jurisdiction) that require members to recuse themselves under certain circumstances. Those rules often adjust the number needed to adopt a motion to account for the reduction in the number of members voting.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 6/9/2022 at 2:37 PM, Guest John Lee said:

I am a reporter for the NPR affiliate in Baltimore, MD. I am working on a story regarding a vote by the Baltimore County School Board. The board uses Robert's Rules. The board has 12 members. 7 votes are needed to pass an item, in this case approving an employee contract. Currently there is a vacancy on the board, so there are 11 people voting. 6 voted yes on the contract. No one voted no. Three abstained. Two recused. So the contract was not renewed, since they did not get 7 votes. My question is, is this a valid vote? If abstained and recused votes are not technically counted, did they then not have enough available votes (7) to make it valid? Thank you.

If the board uses Robert's Rules, then 7 votes are needed to pass an item only when all 12 members are present and voting.  

If the rules in RONR apply (and we don't know at this point that they do) a majority vote means more than half of those present and voting.  Mathematically this is the same as saying that there must be more Yes votes than No votes.  Absences and abstentions are not counted, and do not count, so long as a quorum is present.

So in the situation you describe, the vote was 6-0, which is a majority vote, as there are more Yes than No votes, or put another way 6 is more than half of. 6.  A case could be made that the vote was unanimous, as there was no dissenting vote.  It should be noted that whether the motion is adopted or rejected, either outcome is "valid".

Recusals are not a thing under RONR; since all abstentions are voluntary; they are no different from any other abstention.

Now, since this is a School Board--a public body--there can be other rules at work, which require more than simply a majority vote.  It may require a majority of the full board, which would mean 7 yes votes are always required at a minimum, presuming there are no vacancies on the board.   And to complicate matters even further, it is often the case that which of these different thresholds apply depends on the class of business to which the motion belongs, which are defined in the statute or regulation governing school boards.  These can vary from state to state.  It's entirely possible that granting of contracts might require 7 votes, where other matters would require only a majority of those present and voting.  

My hat's off to you for being a responsible journalist and wanting to get the story right.  Thanks for reaching out to us.  It can get complex.  Good luck.

 

Edited June 10, 2022 at 02:22 AM by Gary Novosielski

[Guest John Lee]

Thank you, everyone. This was very helpful. Yes, they specifically need at least 7 votes to pass anything. My question, which you have answered to my satisfaction, is that there was a quorum for this vote although five of them abstained or recused.

[laser158689]

Are you absolutely sure on the 7 votes?  See Policy 8320 of Baltimore County Public Schools.

"No motion or resolution shall be declared adopted without the concurrence of a majority of the whole Board."

IF I found the correct site, and IF there isn't another policy (on contracts, or required by state law, etc), then it seems that the "whole board" at the time of the vote is 11 members and 6 is a majority of 11.  See RONR 44:9.b esp footnote 1.

Not sure if the link is OK for this forum... Baltimore County Public Schools Policy 8320

Edited June 10, 2022 at 09:27 PM by laser158689
missed a return.

[Shmuel Gerber]

On 6/10/2022 at 5:26 PM, laser158689 said:

"No motion or resolution shall be declared adopted without the concurrence of a majority of the whole Board."

Robert's Rules does not define the term "majority of the whole board." The closest term defined is "majority of the entire membership." So even if this text you found is applicable, we still don't know whether this term is defined elsewhere to mean something else. 

[Richard Brown]

Guest John Lee, The two immediately preceding posts are the reason that I asked  you for the exact wording as to the number of votes required.

Please quote for us, verbatim, the exact wording in the governing document that specifies the number of votes required to adopt motion/rule of the type at issue in this discussion. Please quote verbatim, do not paraphrase.  We need the exact language from the governing documents or controlling law. 

[Gary Novosielski]

On 6/10/2022 at 6:55 PM, Shmuel Gerber said:

Robert's Rules does not define the term "majority of the whole board." The closest term defined is "majority of the entire membership." So even if this text you found is applicable, we still don't know whether this term is defined elsewhere to mean something else. 

I agree.

However, during my time on a School Board in New Jersey, that term was used in the statutes, and was equivalent to "a majority of the entire membership of the board". With a board size of nine living breathing members, that meant 5 votes to pass.  However it was a special threshold that applied only to certain classes of business that were considered important enough to require unambiguous majority approval.

Since such a rule is beyond anything in RONR, and will depend on state regulations, the board attorney would be helpful.  But i don't ever rule out the possibility that a board believes there is a certain rule because everybody knows that's how it's always been done, when in fact it's simply not true.