Form a new committee within the council

[Donna Ruth]

A constituent sub-group of our larger council wants to put forth a motion to create a new Standing Committee of its constituent members.  This would require an amendment to bylaws which could be done with 2/3 affirmative vote.

My question:   Can the leader of the council deny the motion going forward?  

Thank you.

 

[Joshua Katz]

On 12/17/2022 at 8:55 AM, Donna Ruth said:

My question:   Can the leader of the council deny the motion going forward?  

 

No.

[Josh Martin]

On 12/17/2022 at 8:55 AM, Donna Ruth said:

A constituent sub-group of our larger council wants to put forth a motion to create a new Standing Committee of its constituent members.  This would require an amendment to bylaws which could be done with 2/3 affirmative vote.

My question:   Can the leader of the council deny the motion going forward?  

Could you clarify for what reason the leader would purport to "deny" the motion? Simply because the leader disagrees with it? Or is there more to it than that?

[Richard Brown]

On 12/17/2022 at 8:55 AM, Donna Ruth said:

A constituent sub-group of our larger council wants to put forth a motion to create a new Standing Committee of its constituent members.  This would require an amendment to bylaws which could be done with 2/3 affirmative vote.

My question:   Can the leader of the council deny the motion going forward?  

 

Only if he rules that the motion is out of order. Agreeing with Mr. Martin, he has no right to prevent the motion from moving forward simply because he disagrees with the motion. He would have to make a finding that doing so would violate the bylaws or is out of order for some other valid reason. Such a ruling would then be subject to appeal to the assembly itself.

Edited December 17, 2022 at 04:08 PM by Richard Brown
Edited third sentence

[Gary Novosielski]

On 12/17/2022 at 9:55 AM, Donna Ruth said:

A constituent sub-group of our larger council wants to put forth a motion to create a new Standing Committee of its constituent members.  This would require an amendment to bylaws which could be done with 2/3 affirmative vote.

My question:   Can the leader of the council deny the motion going forward?  

Thank you.

 

No.  Such a motion seems perfectly valid, presuming that the all the steps for duly amending the bylaws are followed.  The two-thirds vote is typical, but also check for other requirements such as prior notice, and presuming that the "larger council" actually has the power to amend the bylaws.  Often, this power is reserved to the full membership of the organization, rather than a smaller subset.  I don't know where "larger council" fits in this structure.

[Rob Elsman]

My colleagues are assuming the motion is made at a time in a regular or properly called meeting when the motion would be in order, pursuant to what is said in RONR (12th ed.) 35:2, item 1 and a requirement for previous notice has been properly met.  In my mind's eye, I can imagine parliamentary situations where it would be proper for the chair to rule that the motion is not in order, agreeing with Mr. Martin's suggestion for further clarification.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 12/17/2022 at 11:57 AM, Rob Elsman said:

My colleagues are assuming the motion is made at a time in a regular or properly called meeting when the motion would be in order, pursuant to what is said in RONR (12th ed.) 35:2, item 1 and a requirement for previous notice has been properly met.  In my mind's eye, I can imagine parliamentary situations where it would be proper for the chair to rule that the motion is not in order, agreeing with Mr. Martin's suggestion for further clarification.

My colleague is assuming that when the motion is made during that regular or properly called meeting, that a quorum is present.  I can imagine a situation where it would be proper for the chair to note an absence of a quorum and therefore rule that the motion is not in order.  😁

[Richard Brown]

It would also not be in order if it would violate the bylaws.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 12/17/2022 at 1:15 PM, Richard Brown said:

It would also not be in order if it would violate the bylaws.

...or if moved by a non-member!  Or if it interrupted a speaker who had the floor (heaven forbid).

[Joshua Katz]

Sure, but even if the chair rules that one of the above applies, he can be overruled on appeal.

[Richard Brown]

On 12/17/2022 at 4:42 PM, Joshua Katz said:

Sure, but even if the chair rules that one of the above applies, he can be overruled on appeal.

Sure, but the OP’s original question was: “Can the leader of the council deny the motion going forward?  ”. I think the answer clearly is, only if the motion is out of order (or rather “only if he believes the motion is out of order”).  What the assembly may or may not do with it on an appeal is a different question. 

[Gary Novosielski]

On 12/17/2022 at 7:27 PM, Richard Brown said:

Sure, but the OP’s original question was: “Can the leader of the council deny the motion going forward?  ”. I think the answer clearly is, only if the motion is out of order (or rather “only if he believes the motion is out of order”).  What the assembly may or may not do with it on an appeal is a different question. 

Or perhaps "only if he believes the motion is out of order and can coherently state the reasons for that belief." 

[Rob Elsman]

For the sake of the original poster, the correct answer to the question posed depends on facts not in evidence.

[Donna Ruth]

Thank you to everyone who responded here.   The question stems from concerns that the Chair of the meeting may not wish to give the particular sub-group a formal 'voice' in the larger body.   In other words, he has proposed to offer the group to form an Ad Hoc or special committee--which is something he can form (and presumably disband) at will from his position.   Such a committee would not provide the autonomy, legitimacy, and proper standing within the larger body that the constitutent group needs to exert the influence it wants and establish record keeping of motions it sets forward.   

There is nothing in the bylaws that prohibits the creation of new Standing Committees, only a clause about the 2/3 rule to amend the bylaws.   (And yes, I am aware of Robert's Rules on notification procedures to propose such an amendment in advance of a meeting.)

The other wrinkle is that a 'change' in the bylaws once passed in this body, then has to be approved by the university's board of trustees--and the chair could lean on them to decline the motion even if approved of by the 2/3 vote by the college council.   We understand the politics -  I'm just trying to clarify the procedures.

Thanks much for your input!

[Gary Novosielski]

On 12/18/2022 at 3:52 PM, Donna Ruth said:

Thank you to everyone who responded here.   The question stems from concerns that the Chair of the meeting may not wish to give the particular sub-group a formal 'voice' in the larger body.   In other words, he has proposed to offer the group to form an Ad Hoc or special committee--which is something he can form (and presumably disband) at will from his position.   Such a committee would not provide the autonomy, legitimacy, and proper standing within the larger body that the constitutent group needs to exert the influence it wants and establish record keeping of motions it sets forward.   

There is nothing in the bylaws that prohibits the creation of new Standing Committees, only a clause about the 2/3 rule to amend the bylaws.   (And yes, I am aware of Robert's Rules on notification procedures to propose such an amendment in advance of a meeting.)

The other wrinkle is that a 'change' in the bylaws once passed in this body, then has to be approved by the university's board of trustees--and the chair could lean on them to decline the motion even if approved of by the 2/3 vote by the college council.   We understand the politics -  I'm just trying to clarify the procedures.

Thanks much for your input!

Any time.  On my own behalf and that of my colleagues, I apologize if we got a little silly there toward the and, but I wish you luck.