Executive Committee with No Executive Board

[Guest Madisyn M.]

Hello,

The organization I am a part of has an Executive Committee as its highest form of leadership. It has been acting more as an Executive Board, as there is no one higher to which it reports. There has been confusion as to the RONR it must follow as there are different rules for Standing committee, Executive Boards, and Executive Committees. How is it determined where it falls in RONR as far as procedures? This is of importance as many things can conflict if there is no clear delineation.

The Bylaws are written by any member and are voted on at annual convention. Rules are created by the EC for how it operates in meetings. For as long as I know, both Bylaws and rules haven't been checked by any Parliamentarian and most all of our membership (including the majority of the EC) are clueless to RONR, even though it is in our Bylaws that it is parliamentarian authority to all things that our Bylaws do not cover. (Our bylaws are very vague and poor)

 

Thanks!

[Guest Madisyn M.]

Edited to add:

We recently had a Parliamentarian look over our bylaws against RONR and advise on motions and rulings for 1 meeting. I wasn't discounting that. I meant that when the bylaws are submitted and put before the membership for vote, whether or not they are sufficient and clear with RONR has never been discussed with a Parliamentarian (to my knowledge). Therefore, we now have bylaws that are REALLY bad and leave a lot to interpretation (of a group of individuals who don't know or understand RONR). So, I'm going to keep reaching out for experts on the issues that come up due to bylaws vs. RONR issues.

[Gary Novosielski]

It may be cold comfort, but your organization is not alone in having less than optimal bylaws.  You might want to become a member here, to get rid of the "Guest" label, and more readily follow the train of conversations.  You won't get spammified as a result.

Good luck, and stop back whenever.

[Richard Brown]

On 12/18/2022 at 2:46 PM, Guest Madisyn M. said:

The organization I am a part of has an Executive Committee as its highest form of leadership. It has been acting more as an Executive Board, as there is no one higher to which it reports. There has been confusion as to the RONR it must follow as there are different rules for Standing committee, Executive Boards, and Executive Committees. How is it determined where it falls in RONR as far as procedures?

Guest Madisyn, being familiar with your earlier thread concerning removal of an officer, I am confident that your executive committee is, for all intents and purposes, your board of directors or executive board. It is quite common, especially with political organizations, for an “executive committee“ or “state central committee“ to actually be in the nature of a board rather than a committee. In your case, I am pretty confident your executive committee is actually in the nature of a board, not a committee, and that the rules in RONR governing boards rather than committees will be controlling. Further, your executive committee is in fact equivalent to a board of directors. So, think in terms of your executive committee as being your governing board, not a committee. It is most likely subject only to orders from the membership as a whole, probably when acting at a convention since this is apparently a political organization that more than likely can act only when in convention unless your bylaws permit calling special meetings of the membership.

Guest Madisyn, I suggest that you consider joining the forum as a member. It has many advantages, primarily being much easier to make posts without having to use a captcha and also you can  take advantage of the private message feature that is available only to members.  You do not have to use your real name, although I am sure you have noticed that most of the regular participants in this forum do in fact use our real names. We understand that in your case you may not care to use your real name, at least for now.  You can change that at any time.

Edited December 18, 2022 at 11:19 PM by Richard Brown
Added last paragraph

[Josh Martin]

On 12/18/2022 at 2:46 PM, Guest Madisyn M. said:

The organization I am a part of has an Executive Committee as its highest form of leadership. It has been acting more as an Executive Board, as there is no one higher to which it reports. There has been confusion as to the RONR it must follow as there are different rules for Standing committee, Executive Boards, and Executive Committees. How is it determined where it falls in RONR as far as procedures? This is of importance as many things can conflict if there is no clear delineation.

An "Executive Committee," in the sense that term is used in RONR, refers to a subset of a larger Board of Directors. (It is usually not desirable to call the larger board an "Executive Board" in such a case, as this leads to confusion.) If the "Executive Committee" in your organization is, in fact, not a subset of a larger board, I am in agreement that it is an "Executive Board" in the sense that term is used in RONR and would follow the rules for Executive Boards.

But even if it was to operate under the rules for Executive Committees, I do not think this would make any practical difference. There is not actually any difference between the rules concerning Executive Boards and Executive Committees except the rules pertaining to the Executive Committee being subordinate to its parent board, and such rules are irrelevant if no parent board exists.

In any event, the rules pertaining to standing committees would certainly not be applicable, as RONR is clear that "The executive committee is thus in reality a “board within a board” and operates under the rules in this book applicable to boards rather than those applicable to committees." RONR (12th ed.) 49:13, emphasis added

Edited December 19, 2022 at 12:36 AM by Josh Martin

[Gary Novosielski]

I agree with the previous answers.  Based on your description, this Executive Committee is in the nature of a board, and would be governed by the rules in RONR applicable to boards, notwithstanding its somewhat misleading name.

[1Angela]

Madisyn, I am on these forums in the same capacity as you.  I know next to nothing about parliamentary procedure yet.  Having said that, the advice you are getting about joining the forum as opposed to posting as a guest is something you should absolutely consider.    

[puzzling]

On 12/18/2022 at 8:50 PM, Guest Madisyn M. said:

We recently had a Parliamentarian look over our bylaws against RONR and advise on motions and rulings for 1 meeting. I wasn't discounting that. I meant that when the bylaws are submitted and put before the membership for vote, whether or not they are sufficient and clear with RONR has never been discussed with a Parliamentarian (to my knowledge)

Did that parliamentarian a good job?

Why did he not advice on how to improve the bylaws themselves as well?

[J. J.]

On 12/19/2022 at 3:47 AM, puzzling said:

Did that parliamentarian a good job?

Why did he not advice on how to improve the bylaws themselves as well?

One meeting is a bit short for that. 

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

It is not difficult for those in the same organization to puzzle out the parties involved, and in this case, the Executive Committee is in the nature of a Board.  In the same way, the national organization of which this organization is a part of has its governing board also using the same "committee" as in XX National Committee, but it is a Board.

I want to caution something from reading the prior closed thread...... Groups should be very discrete in making public allegations of such a serious matter as the sort of misconduct described in the other thread.  It can open the society up to damages.

 

[J. J.]

In this regard, you might wish to read "Is It Really a Committee," National Parliamentarian, Second Quarter 1998.  Coincidentally, a state or national political party is given as an example of something called a committee that is not one in a parliamentary sense.  

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

On 12/20/2022 at 7:17 AM, J. J. said:

In this regard, you might wish to read "Is It Really a Committee," National Parliamentarian, Second Quarter 1998.  Coincidentally, a state or national political party is given as an example of something called a committee that is not one in a parliamentary sense.  

Yep.  Is the Republican National Committee, Democratic National Committee, or Libertarian National Committee (I think the Greens and Constitution Parties use similar terminology) committees or governing boards?  They are boards.

[J. J.]

On 12/21/2022 at 12:22 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos said:

Yep.  Is the Republican National Committee, Democratic National Committee, or Libertarian National Committee (I think the Greens and Constitution Parties use similar terminology) committees or governing boards?  They are boards.

Boards, i.e. a type of assembly.