Readmitted during an endorsement vote?

[Guest Lisa S]

During an endorsement vote of a local political committee, a majority vote was not reached and it was determined there would need to be another round of voting where the candidate with the least amount of votes was eliminated.   A committee person had left the meeting after the first round and went home.  When the chair found out that there would need to be another vote, he called the person and asked them to return.   Is this allowed under Roberts rules or do they forfeit their right to vote for leaving the meeting?

[Gary Novosielski]

Not only do they not forfeit anything, it is not proper to eliminate any candidates unless they voluntarily withdraw..  In order to vote, a member must be present, but if they leave, there is no law that says they can't be contacted, and if they do return, they have the right to vote.   So everything about that is fine, with the exception of improperly declaring a candidate ineligible.  So-called "runoff" elections are not permitted under the rules in RONR.

Edited March 22, 2023 at 12:59 AM by Gary Novosielski

[J. J.]

On 3/21/2023 at 8:57 PM, Gary Novosielski said:

Not only do they not forfeit anything, it is not proper to eliminate any candidates unless they voluntarily withdraw..  In order to vote, a member must be present, but if they leave, there is no law that says they can't be contacted, and if they do return, they have the right to vote.   So everything about that is fine, with the exception of improperly declaring a candidate ineligible.  So-called "runoff" elections are not permitted under the rules in RONR.

I would note that this is:

A.  Not an election of an officer, but a vote to endorse a candidate, presumably for public or party office.

B.  May be permitted by a bylaw, special rule or even under a suspension of the rules as this is not an election of an officer.

That said, it was proper for the chair to call the member and ask him to return.  A member need not be present when the question is put to a vote in order to vote (45:56). 

[Rob Elsman]

Members are allowed to come and go freely without any penalty.

I am concerned about the procedure being used to determine whom to endorse. The proper motion is a main motion. If it appears that there are several people whom various members would like to endorse, the device known as filling blanks may be used.

When filling a blank, there is only one round of voting, and the first suggestion that receives a majority vote fills the blank, the remaining suggestions not being voted on. In the event that no suggestion receives a majority, the question on the adoption of the main motion (with its blank)will be put.

If the main motion is rejected, the committee will report that it has not reached any conclusions. If the main motion (with its blank) is adopted, the blank is then filled. In this instance, multiple rounds of voting may be needed for a suggestion to receive a majority vote; however, no suggestion is dropped at the conclusion of each round of voting.

[Josh Martin]

On 3/21/2023 at 7:34 PM, Guest Lisa S said:

Is this allowed under Roberts rules or do they forfeit their right to vote for leaving the meeting?

Yes, it is allowed. No one loses their right to vote on the grounds that they temporarily leave.

On 3/21/2023 at 7:57 PM, Gary Novosielski said:

Not only do they not forfeit anything, it is not proper to eliminate any candidates unless they voluntarily withdraw..  In order to vote, a member must be present, but if they leave, there is no law that says they can't be contacted, and if they do return, they have the right to vote.   So everything about that is fine, with the exception of improperly declaring a candidate ineligible.  So-called "runoff" elections are not permitted under the rules in RONR.

It would not surprise me if the organization's rules do, in fact, provide for candidates to be eliminated. Such rules are not uncommon in political party endorsement processes.

Further, I concur with J.J. that because this is not electing someone to office but is an ordinary procedure of filling blanks, a lower level rule (or even a suspension of the rules) is permissible in this case.

On 3/22/2023 at 7:57 AM, Rob Elsman said:

Members are allowed to come and go freely without any penalty.

I am concerned about the procedure being used to determine whom to endorse. The proper motion is a main motion. If it appears that there are several people whom various members would like to endorse, the device known as filling blanks may be used.

When filling a blank, there is only one round of voting, and the first suggestion that receives a majority vote fills the blank, the remaining suggestions not being voted on. In the event that no suggestion receives a majority, the question on the adoption of the main motion (with its blank)will be put.

If the main motion is rejected, the committee will report that it has not reached any conclusions. If the main motion (with its blank) is adopted, the blank is then filled. In this instance, multiple rounds of voting may be needed for a suggestion to receive a majority vote; however, no suggestion is dropped at the conclusion of each round of voting.

I would note a few things:

• It is quite common for political organizations to provide in their rules that endorsing procedures do, in fact, involve multiple rounds of voting if no candidate obtains the required threshold on the first round of voting.
• As noted above, it is not unusual for the organization to have rules providing that candidates are "dropped," and if the organization does not yet have such rules, it may adopt some for the present endorsing procedure.
• I'm not sure a report is involved here. The term "committee" in the context of political parties often refers to the organization as a whole, not a "committee" in the parliamentary sense.

[Atul Kapur]

On 3/22/2023 at 7:57 AM, Rob Elsman said:

When filling a blank, there is only one round of voting, and the first suggestion that receives a majority vote fills the blank, the remaining suggestions not being voted on. In the event that no suggestion receives a majority, the question on the adoption of the main motion (with its blank)will be put.

An endorsement could be done this way. However, even if it is, the phrase "round of voting" suggests this was done by ballot, as envisaged in 12:103, so there could be multiple rounds of voting until one name receives a majority vote.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 3/21/2023 at 10:41 PM, J. J. said:

I would note that this is:

A.  Not an election of an officer, but a vote to endorse a candidate, presumably for public or party office.

B.  May be permitted by a bylaw, special rule or even under a suspension of the rules as this is not an election of an officer.

That said, it was proper for the chair to call the member and ask him to return.  A member need not be present when the question is put to a vote in order to vote (45:56). 

Ah.  Thanx.