Voting Rules for Board vs Membership

[Guest Craig442]

HI Folks, i'm new here.  I did some searching and wasn't able to find the answer so i figure it would be easier to ask.

I'm part of an organization of that currently has 26 voting members.  We have a board of director that 11 of those members sit on.

At a recent board meeting we discussed a member (probationary) being removed from the organization based on poor attendance and participation.  A motion was made to recommend to the membership that the person be removed as our bylaws & policies do not allow the board to remove a member.  The most passed unanimously with 8 yes votes....2 member absent, no vote from chair./p

Fast forward to a week later, when this recommendation was at the membership meeting.  There was 16 member present, 8 of which were on the board.  The motion was made to have this person dropped.  

This is where things went sideways as we don't have wording in our own bylaws or policies on this.  It was stated by a member that since the BOARD already voted for her to be removed that collectively the board counted as 1 vote.

I haven't been able to find anywhere if this is correct or not.  Can anyone comment on this?  or perhaps point me in the right direction where to find this rule?

[Joshua Katz]

At a membership meeting, the board as such is not present, and so has no vote. Board members, assuming they are members of the organization, may vote as they wish. 

[Craig442]

On 6/9/2023 at 9:16 PM, Joshua Katz said:

At a membership meeting, the board as such is not present, and so has no vote. Board members, assuming they are members of the organization, may vote as they wish. 

Are you able to point out where this can be found in Roberts Rules?

[Joshua Katz]

Let me ask it this way. What is the opposing view being promoted? Are people saying the board gets a vote and each member gets a vote, or that members who are also board members do not get to vote because the "board vote" covered them? I might be able to find a reference for one or the other, but what I've said so far is more of a negative implication thing.

[Craig442]

The board is also members of the organization.  In this instance, with 16 members present...the chair with no vote....8 "regular" members and 7 members who were also on the board of directors.  During this meeting it was said the members who were on the board, collectively counted as 1 single vote....in this case, YES to remove the person.  The 8 "regular" members voted NO to removing this person.  So even though there was 15 voting members present, there was only 9 votes.  

[Rob Elsman]

On 6/9/2023 at 7:30 PM, Craig442 said:

During this meeting it was said the members who were on the board, collectively counted as 1 single vote....

Unless there is something in the organization's bylaws that spells this out, it would not be so.  This violates the "one person, one vote" fundamental principle of parliamentary law.  See RONR (12th ed.) 45:2.

[Craig442]

On 6/9/2023 at 9:54 PM, Rob Elsman said:

Unless there is something in the organization's bylaws that spells this out, it would not be so.  This violates the "one person, one vote" fundamental principle of parliamentary law.  See RONR (12th ed.) 45:2.

Perfect, thanks!

 

[Josh Martin]

On 6/9/2023 at 8:14 PM, Guest Craig442 said:

This is where things went sideways as we don't have wording in our own bylaws or policies on this.  It was stated by a member that since the BOARD already voted for her to be removed that collectively the board counted as 1 vote.

I haven't been able to find anywhere if this is correct or not.  Can anyone comment on this?  or perhaps point me in the right direction where to find this rule?

No, this is not correct. Each individual board member who is also a member of the organization has one vote, as an individual, at meetings of the organization, whether or not the board has previously voted on the matter. There is not a "collective" vote for the board.

On 6/9/2023 at 8:30 PM, Craig442 said:

The board is also members of the organization.  In this instance, with 16 members present...the chair with no vote....8 "regular" members and 7 members who were also on the board of directors.  During this meeting it was said the members who were on the board, collectively counted as 1 single vote....in this case, YES to remove the person.  The 8 "regular" members voted NO to removing this person.  So even though there was 15 voting members present, there was only 9 votes.  

I would describe it differently. You had 16 regular members present, eight of whom also happened to be board members. (I'm assuming the chair is also a board member.) There were seven votes in the affirmative to remove the member and eight votes in the negative. A total of 15 votes were cast. So the motion to remove the member was still defeated, but it wasn't the landslide some members are suggesting.

Finally, I would note that it is not quite correct to say that the chair has "no vote," unless your rules so provide. See FAQ #1 for more information. I don't think it makes a difference in this particular case, but it should be kept in mind for the future.

I'd also be curious as to whether the removal procedure you discussed is provided for in your bylaws.

Edited June 10, 2023 at 01:03 PM by Josh Martin

[Gary Novosielski]

On 6/9/2023 at 8:14 PM, Guest Craig442 said:

HI Folks, i'm new here.  I did some searching and wasn't able to find the answer so i figure it would be easier to ask.

I'm part of an organization of that currently has 26 voting members.  We have a board of director that 11 of those members sit on.

At a recent board meeting we discussed a member (probationary) being removed from the organization based on poor attendance and participation.  A motion was made to recommend to the membership that the person be removed as our bylaws & policies do not allow the board to remove a member.  The most passed unanimously with 8 yes votes....2 member absent, no vote from chair./p

Fast forward to a week later, when this recommendation was at the membership meeting.  There was 16 member present, 8 of which were on the board.  The motion was made to have this person dropped.  

This is where things went sideways as we don't have wording in our own bylaws or policies on this.  It was stated by a member that since the BOARD already voted for her to be removed that collectively the board counted as 1 vote.

I haven't been able to find anywhere if this is correct or not.  Can anyone comment on this?  or perhaps point me in the right direction where to find this rule?

Board members only have the power to vote as board members during a meeting of the board.  During a meeting of the Membership, the only people who can vote are members of the general Membership and each has one vote.  Board members can vote during membership meetings only if they are also general members, which is commonly true, but are exceptions in some organizations.

Except for the fact of where this recommendation originated, it is irrelevant that the organization even has a board.  The board is not in session at that moment, and nothing that goes on at a Membership meeting is an act of the board.

[Guest Ikonoblast]

In our instance, the board voted against a membership committee recommendation to change a provision in the bylaws. At the membership meeting, all board members voted as members to support their position again. This seems wrong. Please tell me why.

[Rob Elsman]

The recommendations of committees that are immediately inferior to the general membership assembly are presented to the general membership assembly, not the executive board.

[Josh Martin]

On 4/18/2024 at 2:05 PM, Guest Ikonoblast said:

In our instance, the board voted against a membership committee recommendation to change a provision in the bylaws. At the membership meeting, all board members voted as members to support their position again. This seems wrong. Please tell me why.

I can't speak to whether your bylaws provide that the membership committee's recommendation in this matter goes to the board first.

But to the extent that is how it works in your organization, it isn't wrong. Board members retain their rights as members of the organization, and are free to vote at a membership meeting, notwithstanding that they may have previously voted on the issue as a board member.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 4/18/2024 at 3:05 PM, Guest Ikonoblast said:

In our instance, the board voted against a membership committee recommendation to change a provision in the bylaws. At the membership meeting, all board members voted as members to support their position again. This seems wrong. Please tell me why.

This seems to be tacked on to a ten-month-old thread.  Please ask a complete question as a new topic.