Are candidates allowed to vote for themselves?

[Matteo]

I am the parliamentarian for an international association which meets twice early. During our assemblies, we adopt a country-based voting system. Members convey their preferences to a representative of their country, who will then cast two votes for the whole delegation on each pending question or election. Quorum is met when 40% of countries with voting rights are present. 

Our bylaws say that candidates for an officer position can't place votes in the election for that position. This entails that if a national delegation is composed of a single person, that country won't have the right to vote on a position in case their single representative happens to run for it.

In my opinion, prohibiting candidates from voting for themselves could pose challenges. For example, assume that excluding candidates from voting for a position leads to the absence of a quorum; this creates a problematic scenario, making it impossible to conduct a vote or for some candidates to run. Hence, this restriction could potentially violate the fundamental rights of a member to run for any position and to participate in the voting process. 

Others, however, may argue that it is also unfair to allow candidates to cast two votes for themselves if they are the only delegate from their country, as it might give them an advantage over other candidates. 

Based on RONR, I understand that no rule prevents nominees for an officer position from voting for themselves.  

So I wonder, what would be more correct, to allow candidates to vote for themselves or not?

Edited November 29, 2023 at 10:44 AM by Matteo

[Shmuel Gerber]

On 11/29/2023 at 5:44 AM, Matteo said:

So I wonder, what would be more correct, to allow candidates to vote for themselves or not?

Your bylaws take precedence over RONR. So, what would be more correct is to go according to the existing bylaws, unless and until the relevant provisions are amended to say something else.

On 11/29/2023 at 5:44 AM, Matteo said:

 

In my opinion, prohibiting candidates from voting for themselves could pose challenges. For example, assume that excluding candidates from voting for a position leads to the absence of a quorum; this creates a problematic scenario, making it impossible to conduct a vote or for some candidates to run.

A quorum depends on the number of voting members present. I don't think the fact that, in a particular scenario under your bylaws, a certain member is restricted in casting a vote for himself, would prevent him from being counted toward the quorum. 

[Matteo]

On 11/29/2023 at 12:04 PM, Shmuel Gerber said:

A quorum depends on the number of voting members present. I don't think the fact that, in a particular scenario under your bylaws, a certain member is restricted in casting a vote for himself, would prevent him from being counted toward the quorum. 

In our organisation, the quorum depends on the number of voting countries present, not individual members. If a country is prevented from voting for a position because their only delegate is running for that position, would they still be counted in the quorum even if they can't vote? 

 

On 11/29/2023 at 12:04 PM, Shmuel Gerber said:

Your bylaws take precedence over RONR. So, what would be more correct is to go according to the existing bylaws, unless and until the relevant provisions are amended to say something else.

I want to propose a bylaws amendment to allow delegates to vote for the position they are running for. So my question is if that would be correct and fair considering RONR and our peculiar voting system. 

[Josh Martin]

On 11/29/2023 at 4:44 AM, Matteo said:

Our bylaws say that candidates for an officer position can't place votes in the election for that position.

On 11/29/2023 at 4:44 AM, Matteo said:

So I wonder, what would be more correct, to allow candidates to vote for themselves or not?

If your bylaws provides that candidates cannot vote on a position when they are running for that position, then that's that.

On 11/29/2023 at 4:44 AM, Matteo said:

In my opinion, prohibiting candidates from voting for themselves could pose challenges. For example, assume that excluding candidates from voting for a position leads to the absence of a quorum; this creates a problematic scenario, making it impossible to conduct a vote or for some candidates to run. Hence, this restriction could potentially violate the fundamental rights of a member to run for any position and to participate in the voting process. 

What exactly do your bylaws say concerning a quorum?

On 11/29/2023 at 5:04 AM, Shmuel Gerber said:

A quorum depends on the number of voting members present. I don't think the fact that, in a particular scenario under your bylaws, a certain member is restricted in casting a vote for himself, would prevent him from being counted toward the quorum. 

But as I understand the facts, the member is not simply prevented from voting for himself. The member is prevented from voting at all.

On 11/29/2023 at 4:44 AM, Matteo said:

Our bylaws say that candidates for an officer position can't place votes in the election for that position. This entails that if a national delegation is composed of a single person, that country won't have the right to vote on a position in case their single representative happens to run for it.

So for purposes of this election, is this person, in fact, a "voting member?"

On 11/29/2023 at 5:39 AM, Matteo said:

In our organisation, the quorum depends on the number of voting countries present, not individual members. If a country is prevented from voting for a position because their only delegate is running for that position, would they still be counted in the quorum even if they can't vote? 

Please quote exactly what your bylaws say in this matter.

On 11/29/2023 at 5:39 AM, Matteo said:

I want to propose a bylaws amendment to allow delegates to vote for the position they are running for. So my question is if that would be correct and fair considering RONR and our peculiar voting system. 

That's a question only your organization's members can answer. Certainly, no rule in RONR would prevent it.

Edited November 29, 2023 at 01:20 PM by Josh Martin

[Shmuel Gerber]

On 11/29/2023 at 8:19 AM, Josh Martin said:

But as I understand the facts, the member is not simply prevented from voting for himself. The member is prevented from voting at all.

Yes, I misread that part.

On 11/29/2023 at 8:19 AM, Josh Martin said:

On 11/29/2023 at 5:44 AM, Matteo said:

 

So for purposes of this election, is this person, in fact, a "voting member?"

That's an interesting question.

On 11/29/2023 at 6:39 AM, Matteo said:

I want to propose a bylaws amendment to allow delegates to vote for the position they are running for. So my question is if that would be correct and fair considering RONR and our peculiar voting system. 

I don't see why it would be unfair to allow such delegates to vote in the election, unless the votes are secret and there is some concern that the delegate will disregard the instructions from the members.

Another approach is to provide for alternates at the convention, which is a typical bylaw provision anyway. Such a provision could also include the possibility of the delegate reclaiming his seat from the alternate some time after having excused himself from acting as a delegate (which he could do after the election is conducted).

[J. J.]

You might see the same thing where the bylaws prohibit people from voting to a defined "conflict of interest."  

[Drake Savory]

On 11/29/2023 at 3:44 AM, Matteo said:

Based on RONR, I understand that no rule prevents nominees for an officer position from voting for themselves.  

Rule 45:5 directly says they can.