Are general questions about other parliamentary system on topic?

[Eli Zupke]

Someone asked me about what alternatives to Robert's Rules might better fit their organization. I'm considering directing them to this forum, but I'm not sure whether that discussion would be on-topic. I expect that how suited the topic is for this forum drops off very quickly as the subject gets further away from Robert's Rules specifically, but I couldn't find any rules for this forum to verify that.

[Gary Novosielski]

Well, the purpose of the forum is to provide information on Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised 12th edition, so that's where the discussion tends to center itself.

I think you should be encouraged to direct anyone interested in parliamentary procedure to this forum, but I would not expect anyone here to recommend another alternative to RONR as being superior, even those who have a fertile imagination with respect to what the special needs of some hypothetical society might be.  Considering that any society using RONR is free to adopt its own Special Rules of Order to supplement and even supersede those in RONR that they find problematic, it's hard to imagine an alternative that is more flexible, and certainly none that has more than a century of experience distilled into its rules.

Speaking for myself, I have had the opportunity to experience a few of the methods touted as alternatives to RONR, and have come away with nothing but a greater admiration for RONR.  I now have a rule that I will not waste my time in a group that has rejected RONR.  

But I'm always interested in what "new" ideas are being dreamed up--interested, but skeptical.

 

 

[Josh Martin]

On 12/12/2023 at 8:24 PM, Eli Zupke said:

Someone asked me about what alternatives to Robert's Rules might better fit their organization. I'm considering directing them to this forum, but I'm not sure whether that discussion would be on-topic. I expect that how suited the topic is for this forum drops off very quickly as the subject gets further away from Robert's Rules specifically, but I couldn't find any rules for this forum to verify that.

Your expectation is correct. And I think the position of most regulars on this forum, myself included, is that there are no better alternatives to Robert's Rules. (I'm not saying there aren't alternative, I'm just saying Robert's Rules is the best.) My advice would be that the organization continue to use Robert's Rules, get a copy of Robert's Rules In Brief so that members better understand what those rules are, and to the extent that the members disagree with particular aspects, adopt special rules of order as needed.

To the extent the organization nonetheless prefers to explore using a different parliamentary authority, the main other option I am aware of for ordinary societies is the American Institute of Parliamentarians Standard Code of Parliamentary Procedure. This is a (distant) second in terms of the most common authorities in the United States for ordinary societies, and it is written by well-respected parliamentarians and, like Robert's Rules, continues to be updated on a semi-regular basis.

Most other parliamentary authorities available generally have one or more of the following issues:

• They are intended for the use of legislative bodies, not ordinary societies. (e.g. Mason's Manual)
• They are disreputable sources written by inexperienced parliamentarians, including, but not limited to, the various third-party knockoffs of Robert's Rules of Order.
• They are not, in themselves, intended to be used as a parliamentary authority at all, but are instead intended as a third party guide and supplement for an organization using Robert's Rules of Order as its parliamentary authority. Some of these guides are quite good, but they nonetheless should be used as a supplement to RONR, not as a substitute for it. (e.g. Robert's Rules of Order for Dummies)
• They are outdated and no longer regularly updated.

Edited December 13, 2023 at 02:42 PM by Josh Martin

[Rob Elsman]

There are other rules that are more appropriate in very specialized situations.  In my state, for example, there is a statewide high school legislature that meets each year for a week.  The state legislature recesses for a week and hands over the capitol and the staff to the students who hold a week's mock legislative session to consider bills that have been drafted by the students beforehand on topics that have statewide interest for the participants.  As might be suspected, the rules that would apply in the legislative bodies are used to give the students some flavor of the legislative process.

For similar reasons, the student senates of the state universities also emulate the rules of the state legislature.

Robert's Rules is especially appropriate for what it calls "ordinary societies", which encompass a whole universe of various sorts of groups of members that have a common purpose or interest.  Because legislative bodies have their own, muscular sets of rules that vary significantly from state to state, this forum is much less useful for discussion about these kinds of rules.

Just every blue moon, I have responded to a question about something a poster has seen on C-Span concerning the parliamentary rules and practices of the United States House of Representatives, because the House proceedings are so accessible to public viewing and use parliamentary forms and practices (no matter how different they may be from the forms and practices applicable to ordinary societies).

[Shmuel Gerber]

On 12/12/2023 at 9:24 PM, Eli Zupke said:

I expect that how suited the topic is for this forum drops off very quickly as the subject gets further away from Robert's Rules specifically, but I couldn't find any rules for this forum to verify that.

See https://robertsrules.forumflash.com/topic/38364-welcome-to-the-official-ronr-q-a-forums/

 

[Eli Zupke]

Thank you for your responses! I forgot how thorough people tend to respond on this forum, which is something I certainly appreciate. I did end up directing that person here, so hopefully they get some useful answers.

On 12/14/2023 at 12:03 PM, Shmuel Gerber said:

See https://robertsrules.forumflash.com/topic/38364-welcome-to-the-official-ronr-q-a-forums/

 

I did see that, but I didn't think it answered my question. After looking over it more thoroughly, I suppose the answer is actually in the end of the first sentence. I probably overlooked that because I was searching for something that looked set of rules more definitively outlining what is or isn't allowed, and I didn't see something formatted like that.

[Shmuel Gerber]

On 12/14/2023 at 3:22 PM, Eli Zupke said:

I did see that, but I didn't think it answered my question. After looking over it more thoroughly, I suppose the answer is actually in the end of the first sentence. I probably overlooked that because I was searching for something that looked set of rules more definitively outlining what is or isn't allowed, and I didn't see something formatted like that.

I was actually thinking about the sentence "The Question and Answer Forums are provided to allow an open exchange of views relevant to specific questions of parliamentary procedure under Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised."

But if we can get some converts from other parliamentary authorities, no harm done.