Motion to Adjourn Skipping Voted On Agenda Items?

[Josh Martin]

On 3/9/2024 at 10:11 AM, Guest Jimm said:

Ok, you are saying a simple majority by the members present.

Specifically, a majority of the members present and voting.

On 3/9/2024 at 10:11 AM, Guest Jimm said:

Do the items on the approved agenda become unfinished business, since they were made an order of business by approving the agenda?

Items which were on the approved agenda, but which are not reached prior to adjournment, well generally become Unfinished Business for the next regular meeting.

There are some exceptions for particular categories of business (special orders, committee reports), but since these were "tail end items," I gather that they were General Orders.

(Also as a technical matter, I believe you mean the items were made "orders of the day." An "order of business" refers to the complete order of business for the meeting, while "order of the day" refers to a particular item of business contained within the order of business.)

If the assembly meets less frequently than quarterly, however, items of business which are not reached are simply dropped.

Edited March 10, 2024 at 06:30 PM by Josh Martin

[Rob Elsman]

On 3/6/2024 at 9:32 AM, Dan Honemann said:

The fact is that, unlike recesses, there can be only one adjournment of a meeting

This is quite true, but there are many hours.  A motion to adjourn at three o'clock does not pose the same question as a motion to adjourn immediately.  The two are not in conflict with one another, because the motion to adjourn at a certain hour is conditional upon the assembly being in session when the hour arrives--it does not guarantee that the assembly will be in session at that hour.  There is no need to modify the motion to adjourn at the hour fixed; it is simply moot at that hour if the assembly has already adjourned.

[Dan Honemann]

On 3/10/2024 at 7:29 PM, Rob Elsman said:

This is quite true, but there are many hours.  A motion to adjourn at three o'clock does not pose the same question as a motion to adjourn immediately.  The two are not in conflict with one another, because the motion to adjourn at a certain hour is conditional upon the assembly being in session when the hour arrives--it does not guarantee that the assembly will be in session at that hour.  There is no need to modify the motion to adjourn at the hour fixed; it is simply moot at that hour if the assembly has already adjourned.

I think it possible that you have in mind the discussion in this thread in which it was noted that adoption of a motion such as the one described in 15:19(b) does not mandate that debate continue until the time prescribed for closing debate.  It simply orders that debate shall not be allowed to continue beyond that time.

The difference between that situation and this is that the adoption of a motion such as the one described in 15:19(b) does not create an order of the day. We are here dealing with a situation in which adjournment has been made an order of the day.

Edited March 11, 2024 at 01:08 PM by Dan Honemann
Amended as shown

[Guest Jimm]

On 3/11/2024 at 6:32 AM, Dan Honemann said:

The difference between that situation and this is that the adoption of a motion such as the one described in 15:19(b) does not create an order of the day. We are here dealing with a situation in which adjournment has made an order of the day.

 

If the agenda to be followed is voted on at the beginning of the meeting as an order of business, isn't that then an order of the day in of itself?

[Dan Honemann]

On 3/11/2024 at 8:40 AM, Guest Jimm said:

 

If the agenda to be followed is voted on at the beginning of the meeting as an order of business, isn't that then an order of the day in of itself?

No. The adopted agenda becomes the order in which business is to be conducted, it isn't itself an order of the day.  Each item on it, however, is an order of the day.

[Rob Elsman]

On 3/11/2024 at 5:32 AM, Dan Honemann said:

We are here dealing with a situation in which adjournment has been made an order of the day.

Unfortunately, this is the solution that lets a minority of sufficient size hold the assembly hostage until the hour arrives. It's the parliamentary equivalent to division by zero in mathematics.

[Dan Honemann]

On 3/11/2024 at 9:37 AM, Rob Elsman said:

Unfortunately, this is the solution that lets a minority of sufficient size hold the assembly hostage until the hour arrives. It's the parliamentary equivalent to division by zero in mathematics.

It took more than minority to decide to create this order of the day.

[Rob Elsman]

The proposed solution simply means that a majority of insufficient size will get up and leave the one room or area in which the meeting is being held. This is colloquially known as "quorum busting", a practice that should be unnecessary and undesirable in parliamentary law properly used.

[Dan Honemann]

On 3/11/2024 at 10:13 AM, Rob Elsman said:

The proposed solution simply means that a majority of insufficient size will get up and leave the one room or area in which the meeting is being held. This is colloquially known as "quorum busting", a practice that should be unnecessary and undesirable in parliamentary law properly used.

I think you are now simply indicating that you don't think that the rule in RONR should be what it is.  That's okay.  What I object to is someone insisting upon a misinterpretation of a rule in RONR.

 

[Rob Elsman]

When a majority of insufficient size has to resort to quorum busting to end the transaction of business, it is certain that the solution is incorrect. It, too, is the parliamentary equivalent of division by zero in mathematics.

[Rob Elsman]

On 3/11/2024 at 9:44 AM, Dan Honemann said:

I think you are now simply indicating that you don't think that the rule in RONR should be what it is.  That's okay.  What I object to is someone insisting upon a misinterpretation of a rule in RONR.

I have Table II, motion 3 to support my position. I hardly think it is fair to suggest that I am "someone insisting upon a misinterpretation of a rule in RONR".

[Gary Novosielski]

On 3/11/2024 at 9:37 AM, Rob Elsman said:

Unfortunately, this is the solution that lets a minority of sufficient size hold the assembly hostage until the hour arrives. It's the parliamentary equivalent to division by zero in mathematics.

Division by zero can't be cured by simply waiting 'til later. ⚠️