Effective Dates of Convention Rules

[Wright Stuff]

A lot of counties in our political party have amended their convention rules to say that they are effective until replaced at a subsequent convention. RONR says (I believe) that rules are valid until the adjournment of the convention. Is there any reason why the counties' version is not effective or proper? 

[Josh Martin]

On 3/19/2024 at 11:53 AM, Wright Stuff said:

A lot of counties in our political party have amended their convention rules to say that they are effective until replaced at a subsequent convention. RONR says (I believe) that rules are valid until the adjournment of the convention. Is there any reason why the counties' version is not effective or proper? 

A convention ceases to exist upon adjournment. So it is not possible for the convention standing rules to provide that those rules shall be in effect until the next convention adopts convention standing rules. The convention standing rules cease to exist along with the final adjournment of the convention which adopted them, notwithstanding any provision in the convention standing rules stating otherwise.

An organization could, however, provide in its bylaws that the convention standing rules are in effect until the next convention adopts convention standing rules.

In the alternative, the organization could provide in its bylaws some “default” convention rules which are in effect until the convention adopts convention standing rules.

So something like this can certainly be done, and I’ve seen political parties, in particular, adopt rules like this. The convention standing rules just aren’t the right place for it.

Edited March 20, 2024 at 12:24 PM by Josh Martin

[J. J.]

Could the organization adopt special rules of order that apply to the next convention?  

[Gary Novosielski]

On 3/19/2024 at 12:53 PM, Wright Stuff said:

A lot of counties in our political party have amended their convention rules to say that they are effective until replaced at a subsequent convention. RONR says (I believe) that rules are valid until the adjournment of the convention. Is there any reason why the counties' version is not effective or proper? 

Well yeah.  Once the convention ends, there is nothing for the convention's rules to apply to.  So the rules, including the part that says they continue to apply, no longer apply.  A convention cannot impose its rules on a future convention. 

Edited March 20, 2024 at 03:46 PM by Gary Novosielski

[Josh Martin]

On 3/20/2024 at 9:39 AM, J. J. said:

Could the organization adopt special rules of order that apply to the next convention?  

I haven't given this a great deal of thought, but yes, generally I think a special rule of order would also be sufficient. I can't think of a particular reason why it wouldn't be.

I think where this gets somewhat complicated is that convention standing rules often contain a mixture of rules of order and standing rules. As a result, I think a rule in the bylaws might be cleaner, in order to avoid having to adopt both special rules of order and standing rules to meet this objective.

Edited March 20, 2024 at 04:16 PM by Josh Martin

[J. J.]

On 3/20/2024 at 12:16 PM, Josh Martin said:

I haven't given this a great deal of thought, but yes, generally I think a special rule of order would also be sufficient. I can't think of a particular reason why it wouldn't be.

I think where this gets somewhat complicated is that convention standing rules often contain a mixture of rules of order and standing rules. As a result, I think a rule in the bylaws might be cleaner, in order to avoid having to adopt both special rules of order and standing rules to meet this objective.

I'm not disagreeing. 

This actually came up about a fortnight ago. 

[Wright Stuff]

On 3/20/2024 at 8:19 AM, Josh Martin said:

A convention ceases to exist upon adjournment. So it is not possible for the convention standing rules to provide that those rules shall be in effect until the next convention adopts convention standing rules.

Could you provide a cite? This information will be very helpful. 

[Rob Elsman]

RONR (12th ed.) 59:27ff.

[Josh Martin]

On 3/21/2024 at 11:27 PM, Wright Stuff said:

Could you provide a cite? This information will be very helpful. 

"The Committee on Standing Rules drafts and submits for consideration a group of rules known as “The Standing Rules of the Convention,” which, as adopted, will apply to that one convention only. These rules must in no way conflict with the bylaws of the society, but (in contrast to ordinary standing rules in a local society) they can involve modifications of rules contained in the parliamentary authority prescribed by the bylaws. The standing rules of a convention usually contain both “parliamentary” rules relating to the conduct of business, and nonparliamentary rules, so that in some ways they resemble a combination of special rules of order and ordinary standing rules (2). Since their effect expires at the close of the session that adopts them, however, they differ from either of the latter types of rules in certain respects." RONR (12th ed. 59:27, emphasis added

"The adjournment of a mass meeting or the last meeting of a convention dissolves the assembly unless provision has been made whereby it will, or may, be later reconvened. When adjournment would dissolve an assembly, the motion to adjourn is a main motion. A motion to close the session in an assembly that will thereby be dissolved, or will not meet again for a long time unless called into authorized special session under the bylaws or other governing rule, is often referred to as a motion to “adjourn sine die,” which means to “adjourn without day” (see also 8:2(6)). If the bylaws of an organization provide for the calling of a special convention after the regular convention session has been held, this assembly should meet as a distinct session with a body of delegates and alternates that must be chosen anew under provisions established in the bylaws. However, program items normally associated with conventions of the organization need not be provided for." RONR (12th ed.) 21:8, emphasis added