Members asked to leave during Motion Discussion

[Guest Kathy Delegate]

I am currently an Officer for a not-for-profit organization.  I was attending a meeting of the Panel in March; a motion was presented by a voting member and seconded; and I (and other past Officers in that position) were asked to leave the room, as it might be a conflict of interest for us.  None of us had a voice on the topic and I was not allowed to vote on the topic. 

Are there circumstances when members are asked to leave the room during discussion?

When are members voices not heard?

When is a member stripped of their vote?

Where can I find these answers in Robert's Rules?

[Dan Honemann]

Were you a member of this "Panel" that was meeting?

[Kathy D]

Yes, a voting member.  An Officer.

[Dan Honemann]

On 4/9/2024 at 3:13 AM, Kathy D said:

Yes, a voting member.  An Officer.

Paragraph 1:4 of the current (12th) edition of Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised reads as follows (pay particular attention to the sentence which I have bolded):

"A member of an assembly, in the parliamentary sense, as mentioned above, is a person entitled to full participation in its proceedings, that is, as explained in 3 and 4, the right to attend meetings, to make motions, to speak in debate, and to vote. No member can be individually deprived of these basic rights of membership—or of any basic rights concomitant to them, such as the right to make nominations or to give previous notice of a motion—except through disciplinary proceedings. Some organized societies define additional classes of “membership” that do not entail all of these rights. Whenever the term member is used in this book, it refers to full participating membership in the assembly unless otherwise specified. Such members are also described as “voting members” when it is necessary to make a distinction."

This is the rule applicable to your organization's proceedings unless your bylaws, or higher authority such as applicable law, provide otherwise.

 

[Joshua Katz]

On 4/8/2024 at 3:53 PM, Guest Kathy Delegate said:

I (and other past Officers in that position) were asked to leave the room, as it might be a conflict of interest for us.

 

On 4/9/2024 at 4:16 AM, Dan Honemann said:

No member can be individually deprived of these basic rights of membership—or of any basic rights concomitant to them, such as the right to make nominations or to give previous notice of a motion—except through disciplinary proceedings.

But, presumably, they can be asked to give them up. 

[Rob Elsman]

Since the "asked" part of the original post was written in the agentless passive voice, we really cannot determine who did what. Speculation on this is pointless.

[Richard Brown]

On 4/8/2024 at 5:53 PM, Guest Kathy Delegate said:

I am currently an Officer for a not-for-profit organization.  I was attending a meeting of the Panel in March; a motion was presented by a voting member and seconded; and I (and other past Officers in that position) were asked to leave the room, as it might be a conflict of interest for us.  None of us had a voice on the topic and I was not allowed to vote on the topic. 

You can be "asked" to do all manner of things by all sorts of people.  That does not mean you have to comply with any such requests. 

As the RONR provision quoted by Mr. Honemann makes clear, three of the basic rights of membership are the right to attend meetings, to participate in debate at meetings, and to vote.  You cannot be deprived of any of those rights except through appropriate disciplinary proceedings or as may be provided for in your bylaws.  The RONR provision is section 1:4 of the current 12th edition.  It's at the very front of the book!

[Josh Martin]

On 4/8/2024 at 5:53 PM, Guest Kathy Delegate said:

Are there circumstances when members are asked to leave the room during discussion?

The only circumstances in RONR in which members are required to leave the room are:

• When a member has been formally suspended of their rights through disciplinary procedures.
• When a member is facing disciplinary procedures under Ch. XX of RONR and the assembly has reached the consideration of the question of guilt and the penalty.
• When provided for in the organization's bylaws or applicable law.

While I suppose a member could be asked to leave the room in other circumstances, the member is free to refuse the request.

On 4/8/2024 at 5:53 PM, Guest Kathy Delegate said:

When are members voices not heard?

I will interpret this question as asking under what circumstances an individual member may be prevented from speaking in debate. Generally, the answer is the same as above, although I would add that generally applicable limits on debate may be imposed on all members.

On 4/8/2024 at 5:53 PM, Guest Kathy Delegate said:

When is a member stripped of their vote?

Generally, the answer is the same as for the first question. RONR also provides that in circumstances in which a member has a personal or pecuniary interest not in common with other members, the member should not vote, but that the member ultimately has the right to do so. I do not know enough about the circumstances to opine on whether this constitutes a "personal or pecuniary interest not in common with other members," but it doesn't really matter, because ultimately it is the member who must make that judgment for themselves.

It appears that others were suggesting that the members asked to leave had an interest of this nature. I express no view on whether this is correct, but I would note that in so far as RONR is concerned 1.) this is a judgment for the member to make for themselves, and 2.) nothing in RONR suggests that such a member should leave the room, let alone is required to do so.

On 4/8/2024 at 5:53 PM, Guest Kathy Delegate said:

Where can I find these answers in Robert's Rules?

See RONR (12th ed.) 1:4, 45:4.

Edited April 9, 2024 at 05:13 PM by Josh Martin

[Kathy D]

Thank you so much for your feedback.  Truly appreciated.