postponing a committee report

[Guest Bobby]

My group was holding a convention, and two of the items on the agenda were a Platform Committee report, followed by a Fundraising Committee report. (The Platform Committee report contained several indvidual items for consideration.)

Some members wanted to postpone the Platform Committee report until after the Fundraising Committee report.

Neither report had any fixed times (the whole agenda was just a sequence of items).

We were confused about what vote was required to make that postponement, and why. Some people thought it was 2/3, some people thought it was a majority.

[rulesasker]

Was the agenda adopted by the convention? If so, then you could either amend the agenda or suspend the rules. Either way, it's a 2/3 vote. If the agenda was never adopted, then it is purely advisory.

[Rob Elsman]

I think we need to know when the postponement is proposed:

• When the main motion to adopt the convention's agenda is pending, a subsidiary motion, Amend, can be adopted by majority vote.
• After the adoption of the agenda and before the presentation of the committee's report, a main motion, Rescind or Amend Something Previously Adopted can be adopted by either a two-thirds vote or a vote of the majority of the entire membership.
• After the presentation of the committee's report, a main motion to adopt the recommendations contained in the report can be postponed by majority vote.

[Guest Bobby]

Yes, the agenda was adopted by the convention.

The Platform Committee report had just come up as the next item of business, when there was a motion to postpone the entire report until after the Fundraising Committee report.

[Josh Martin]

On 5/6/2024 at 9:31 AM, Guest Bobby said:

My group was holding a convention, and two of the items on the agenda were a Platform Committee report, followed by a Fundraising Committee report. (The Platform Committee report contained several indvidual items for consideration.)

Some members wanted to postpone the Platform Committee report until after the Fundraising Committee report.

Neither report had any fixed times (the whole agenda was just a sequence of items).

We were confused about what vote was required to make that postponement, and why. Some people thought it was 2/3, some people thought it was a majority.

This is context-dependent, which may be the source of confusion. If the Platform Committee report is pending, a majority vote is sufficient. If not, a 2/3 vote would be required.

(As others have noted, a majority is also sufficient if the motion is made when the agenda itself is pending.)

On 5/6/2024 at 10:12 AM, Guest Bobby said:

The Platform Committee report had just come up as the next item of business, when there was a motion to postpone the entire report until after the Fundraising Committee report.

Under these circumstances, a majority vote is sufficient.

On 5/6/2024 at 9:53 AM, rulesasker said:

Was the agenda adopted by the convention? If so, then you could either amend the agenda or suspend the rules. Either way, it's a 2/3 vote. If the agenda was never adopted, then it is purely advisory.

I disagree in part. When an item on an adopted agenda is actually pending, only a majority is required for postponement.

[Richard Brown]

 

I agree mostly with the responses by Mssrs Elsman and Martin, but with a couple of caveats.

On 5/6/2024 at 9:59 AM, Rob Elsman said:

When the main motion to adopt the convention's agenda is pending, a subsidiary motion, Amend, can be adopted by majority vote.

That is true, assuming the organization does not have a formally established order of business for its conventions in its bylaws or convention rules of order.  Many organizations, especially political parties, do have such a formally adopted order of business.  As long as the proposed agenda does not change or deviate from that formal order of business (if there is one), the agenda can be adopted and amended prior to adoption by a majority vote.  However, if the agenda proposes to change or deviate from that order of business, the adoption of such an agenda would require a two-thirds vote rather than a majority vote.  41:61 (RONR 12th ed.).

On 5/6/2024 at 9:59 AM, Rob Elsman said:

After the presentation of the committee's report, a main motion to adopt the recommendations contained in the report can be postponed by majority vote.

This also is true, but the committee's report can be postponed by a majority vote at any time while it is pending and prior to its actual presentation, such as when the report is called up as the next order of business.  There is no need to wait until the report has been presented.  The OP told us the report consists of several separate items for consideration.

I agree with Mr. Martin's comments, with the caveat that although the agenda can be amended by a majority vote prior to being adopted, the adoption of an agenda that deviates from the established order of business (if there is one) would require a two-thirds vote as per 41:61 of RONR (12th ed.).

Edited to add:  It should probably be pointed out that if the report consists of several separate proposals for consideration, as we were told, it is also possible to postpone any of the specific proposals individually as they come up for consideration.  Such postponements would require a majority vote.

Edited May 6, 2024 at 05:44 PM by Richard Brown
Addded last paragraph

[Weldon Merritt]

I concur with Mr. Brown.

[Guest Bobby]

Just to clarify Mr Brown's response --

Our group has an "order of business" in the convention rules, and we adopted an agenda that matched it.

In the order of business, the Platform Committee report is immediately followed by the Fundraising Committee report.

So, would that change the vote required for the postponement?

[Rob Elsman]

My sense of it is that the subsidiary motion, Lay on the Table, is the best course of action. A majority vote is required for adoption. Once the report of the Fundraising Committee has been dealt with, the motion, Take from the Table, can bring the report of the Platform Committee back before the convention by majority vote.

[Josh Martin]

On 5/6/2024 at 5:59 PM, Guest Bobby said:

Our group has an "order of business" in the convention rules, and we adopted an agenda that matched it.

In the order of business, the Platform Committee report is immediately followed by the Fundraising Committee report.

So, would that change the vote required for the postponement?

No. When the report is pending, a majority vote is still sufficient for postponement.

[Wright Stuff]

On 5/6/2024 at 8:37 PM, Josh Martin said:

No. When the report is pending, a majority vote is still sufficient for postponement.

What is a "pending" report

[Richard Brown]

On 5/6/2024 at 10:32 PM, Wright Stuff said:

What is a "pending" report

The item of business (the committee report)  that is currently before the assembly and now being considered. 

[Richard Brown]

On 5/6/2024 at 6:48 PM, Rob Elsman said:

My sense of it is that the subsidiary motion, Lay on the Table, is the best course of action. A majority vote is required for adoption. Once the report of the Fundraising Committee has been dealt with, the motion, Take from the Table, can bring the report of the Platform Committee back before the convention by majority vote.

I agree that using the motion to lay on the table would also be an appropriate method of handling it if the intent is to set aside the platform committee report temporarily in order to take up other business deemed more important and more pressing that should not be delayed. An item of business which has been laid on the table does not come back up automatically, but requires the adoption of a motion to “take from the table“ to be adopted by a majority vote in order to resume consideration of the matter.

The motion to lay on the table is covered in section 17 of RONR (12th Ed.). 

 

[Dan Honemann]

The subsidiary motion to Postpone cannot be applied to a committee report that is pending.  A report that is not pending can be postponed by adoption of an incidental main motion.  RONR (12th ed.,) 14:3, 14:4(2)

[Guest Bobby]

So to repeat, this was the situation --

• Our group has an "order of business" in the convention rules, and we adopted an agenda that matched it. (In the order of business, the Platform Committee report is immediately followed by the Fundraising Committee report.)
• During our convention, the chair said something like "OK, the next item is the Platform Committee report."
• A member said "I move to postpone the Platform Committee report until after the Fundraising Committee report."
• (Then there was a lot of debate about what the vote requirement was.)

I can't tell if Mr Honemann's comment changes the answer to this question. I think it was OK to make the motion to postpone, but I think Mr Honemann is saying that it qualified as an "incidental main motion". Does that change the vote requirement?

 

[Dan Honemann]

On 5/7/2024 at 1:35 PM, Guest Bobby said:

So to repeat, this was the situation --

• Our group has an "order of business" in the convention rules, and we adopted an agenda that matched it. (In the order of business, the Platform Committee report is immediately followed by the Fundraising Committee report.)
• During our convention, the chair said something like "OK, the next item is the Platform Committee report."
• A member said "I move to postpone the Platform Committee report until after the Fundraising Committee report."
• (Then there was a lot of debate about what the vote requirement was.)

I can't tell if Mr Honemann's comment changes the answer to this question. I think it was OK to make the motion to postpone, but I think Mr Honemann is saying that it qualified as an "incidental main motion". Does that change the vote requirement?

 

Well, this raises an interesting question: "When, exactly, does a committee report become pending?". 

If I understand the facts correctly, the chair had announced that the next business in order was the report of the Platform Committee, but had not as yet recognized its chairman (or other reporting member) as having the floor.

If this is correct, in my opinion the report had not as yet become pending, and if a member seeks recognition and is recognized by the chair, that member may move that the report be postponed.  This is a main motion, adoptable by majority vote.  Once the presiding officer recognizes the committee chair as having the floor, however, the report is then pending and no motion to postpone it will be in order. 

Let me hasten to add that what I have just posted is my opinion of the general rule.  If the report is a part of an adopted agenda, then no change can be made in that agenda except by a two-thirds vote, a vote of a majority of the entire membership, or unanimous consent.

 

[Rob Elsman]

So far, I'm sticking with the response I gave earlier. 🙂  Both responses, actually.

Edited May 7, 2024 at 07:12 PM by Rob Elsman

[laser158689]

Is a report a "question"?  Both Lay on the Table and Postpone apply to the "pending question"?

Since the Agenda was adopted, doesn't that just leave "Amend something previously adopted"?

 

[Rob Elsman]

Postpone to a Certain Time and Lay on the Table can only be applied to a motion, not a report.

[Josh Martin]

On 5/6/2024 at 10:32 PM, Wright Stuff said:

What is a "pending" report

I would imagine that the report becomes pending when the chair states "The chair of the XXX report will give the report of the XXX Committee."

On 5/7/2024 at 12:35 PM, Guest Bobby said:

I can't tell if Mr Honemann's comment changes the answer to this question. I think it was OK to make the motion to postpone, but I think Mr Honemann is saying that it qualified as an "incidental main motion". Does that change the vote requirement?

I don't think this fact, in itself, changes the vote requirement, but this fact in connection with the fact that this is a motion to amend an adopted agenda does change the vote requirement.

Mr. Honemann does raise an excellent point that technically the vote to amend an agenda is a 2/3 vote or a vote of a majority of the entire membership. While in most assemblies the former of the two is easier to obtain, the latter of the two may well be easier to obtain in a convention.

On 5/7/2024 at 1:34 PM, Dan Honemann said:

Well, this raises an interesting question: "When, exactly, does a committee report become pending?". 

If I understand the facts correctly, the chair had announced that the next business in order was the report of the Platform Committee, but had not as yet recognized its chairman (or other reporting member) as having the floor.

If this is correct, in my opinion the report had not as yet become pending, and if a member seeks recognition and is recognized by the chair, that member may move that the report be postponed.  This is a main motion, adoptable by majority vote.  Once the presiding officer recognizes the committee chair as having the floor, however, the report is then pending and no motion to postpone it will be in order. 

Let me hasten to add that what I have just posted is my opinion of the general rule.  If the report is a part of an adopted agenda, then no change can be made in that agenda except by a two-thirds vote, a vote of a majority of the entire membership, or unanimous consent.

To make sure I understand you correctly, in the circumstances in which the assembly has adopted an agenda which includes, among other things, a report, and the assembly later wishes to delay this report until a later time on the agenda, the assembly has the following options before it:

• Prior to the report becoming pending, the assembly may amend the agenda by a 2/3 vote, a vote of a majority of the entire membership, or unanimous consent.
• When the report is actually pending, "no motion to postpone it will be in order." I presume, however, that this rule could be suspended, which would require a 2/3 vote or unanimous consent.
• If the assembly is not able to muster the level of support needed for the above options (but there is a majority in favor of postponement), the next course of action would be to hear the report itself, and to then postpone, in sequence, each of the motions arising out of the report (if any).

As I understand it, all of this is based upon SDC #2 for the motion to Postpone Definitely, which does not list reports among the fairly lengthy list of the types of items which may be postponed through means of the subsidiary motion to Postpone Definitely (and I thank you for calling that to our attention).

Is this an accurate summary of your position?

Edited May 7, 2024 at 10:54 PM by Josh Martin

[Dan Honemann]

On 5/7/2024 at 6:18 PM, Josh Martin said:

To make sure I understand you correctly, in the circumstances in which the assembly has adopted an agenda which includes, among other things, a report, and the assembly later wishes to delay this report until a later time on the agenda, the assembly has the following options before it:

• Prior to the report becoming pending, the assembly may amend the agenda by a 2/3 vote, a vote of a majority of the entire membership, or unanimous consent.

This is correct.

 

On 5/7/2024 at 6:18 PM, Josh Martin said:

When the report is actually pending, "no motion to postpone it will be in order." I presume, however, that this rule could be suspended, which would require a 2/3 vote or unanimous consent.

How can this happen?  We are considering a situation in which the presiding officer of the assembly has recognized the chairman of a committee to give the report of that committee.  The committee chairman has the floor.  The incidental motion to Suspend the Rules is out of order when another has the floor (25:2(3).  I'm not fond of the notion that it is in order to move to suspend the rules that interfere with the making of a motion to Suspend the Rules.

On 5/7/2024 at 6:18 PM, Josh Martin said:

If the assembly is not able to muster the level of support needed for the above options (but there is a majority in favor of postponement), the next course of action would be to hear the report itself, and to then postpone, in sequence, each of the motions arising out of the report (if any).

Well, this is certainly an option, but for purposes of this discussion it is important to stay focused on the fact that we are considering a situation where it is the report itself that is immediately pending. 

On 5/7/2024 at 6:18 PM, Josh Martin said:

As I understand it, all of this is based upon SDC #2 for the motion to Postpone Definitely, which does not list reports among the fairly lengthy list of the types of items which may be postponed through means of the subsidiary motion to Postpone Definitely (and I thank you for calling that to our attention).

Oh, it's obviously based upon a bit more than just SDC #2 for the motion to Postpone Definitely, but it is certainly true that my initial participation was solely for the purpose of pointing out that it is in error to assert that this subsidiary motion can be applied to a committee report that is immediately pending.  

[Rob Elsman]

On 5/7/2024 at 1:34 PM, Dan Honemann said:

If this is correct, in my opinion the report had not as yet become pending, and if a member seeks recognition and is recognized by the chair, that member may move that the report be postponed.  This is a main motion, adoptable by majority vote.  Once the presiding officer recognizes the committee chair as having the floor, however, the report is then pending and no motion to postpone it will be in order.

If I understand the facts correctly, it is not in order for a member to interrupt the presiding officer to seek recognition for the purpose of making a main motion.  The announcement of the next item of business and the recognition of the reporting member of the committee to present the committee's report are all of one and the same thing, and it is disorderly for a member to disrupt the presiding officer at that particular moment to seek to make a main motion.

[Dan Honemann]

On 5/8/2024 at 8:28 AM, Rob Elsman said:

If I understand the facts correctly, it is not in order for a member to interrupt the presiding officer to seek recognition for the purpose of making a main motion.  The announcement of the next item of business and the recognition of the reporting member of the committee to present the committee's report are all of one and the same thing, and it is disorderly for a member to disrupt the presiding officer at that particular moment to seek to make a main motion.

Well, I was positing a situation in which the chair had announced that the next business in order was the report of the Platform Committee, but had not as yet recognized its chairman (or other reporting member) as having the floor.  If, as you suggest, the member seeking the floor is actually interrupting the Chair in mid-sentence, then I tend to agree with you.

[Guest Bobby]

RONR 14:11 says "It is not in order, either through a subsidiary motion or a main motion, to postpone a class of business composed of several items or subjects, such as reports of officers or reports of committees; but each report can be postponed separately as it is announced or called for."

I'm not sure how to interpret that. In our case, the Platform Committee report contained several individual items. When the report was announced, a member moved to postpone the whole report. I can't tell whether 14:11 prohibits that, or allows it.

[Richard Brown]

On 5/8/2024 at 10:03 AM, Guest Bobby said:

RONR 14:11 says "It is not in order, either through a subsidiary motion or a main motion, to postpone a class of business composed of several items or subjects, such as reports of officers or reports of committees; but each report can be postponed separately as it is announced or called for."

I'm not sure how to interpret that. In our case, the Platform Committee report contained several individual items. When the report was announced, a member moved to postpone the whole report. I can't tell whether 14:11 prohibits that, or allows it.

I agree. My answers were based n large part on 14:11 which says very clearly that “each report can be postponed separately as it is announced or called for“. It is referring specifically to reports of officers and reports of committees.  In this case, we are talking about a committee report.