Do Robert's Rules of Order Speak about members whose term has expired & they refuse to stop attending meetings?

[Guest Wyatt]

Need help with a confusing question that organizational bylaws don't speak to. 

-One of our major committees has an elected Moderator.  

-Said Moderator serves for a period of two years, and then the gavel is passed to the Vice Moderator who is elevated to Moderator position.  

-During their term on the primary committee, the Moderator also serves on two secondary committees as an At Large member.   

-Now the problem . . . the end of the Old Moderator's term has arrived, the Vice Moderator has moved up to the New Moderator position, has been sworn in, and the physical gavel passed.  

-This occurred over a 6 weeks ago but the Old Moderator refuses to stop attending the secondary committee meetings as the at large member (new moderator should now be attending).  

-Does Robert's Rules of Order speak to the proper procedure somewhere in a way that we can reference to the Old Moderator to help her understand?   (hoping to reason with her).

-We are at our wits end and can't get this person to stop attending the other meetings because she wrongly believes that she still has standing to attend. 

Thank you in advance for any definitive rules of order that we might look to.

[Rob Elsman]

With respect to the periods of time when the committee deliberates, only the members of the committee have the right to be present. RONR (12th ed.) 50:27. Beyond that, the committee is in control of its meeting room, and it may exercise its control by admitting or ejecting non-members of the committee as it judges best.

[Josh Martin]

On 6/10/2024 at 4:37 PM, Guest Wyatt said:

-Does Robert's Rules of Order speak to the proper procedure somewhere in a way that we can reference to the Old Moderator to help her understand?

I'm not sure that anything in RONR will convince such a clearly illogical person, but in any event, it seems to me RONR is quite clear on this question. This person was ex officio a member of the committees in question due to this person's status as Moderator of a different committee. This person no longer holds the Moderator position. As a result, this person also no longer holds any ex officio positions derived from that status.

"Frequently boards include ex-officio members—that is, persons who are members of the board by virtue of an office or committee chairmanship held in the society, or in the parent state or national society or federation or some allied group; or—sometimes in boards outside of organized societies—by virtue of a public office... When an ex-officio member of a board ceases to hold the office that entitles him to such membership, his membership on the board terminates automatically." RONR (12th ed.) 49:8

"The rules affecting ex-officio members of committees are the same as those applying to ex-officio members of boards (49:8–9)." RONR (12th ed.) 50:16

On 6/10/2024 at 4:50 PM, Rob Elsman said:

With respect to the periods of time when the committee deliberates, only the members of the committee have the right to be present. RONR (12th ed.) 50:27. Beyond that, the committee is in control of its meeting room, and it may exercise its control by admitting or ejecting non-members of the committee as it judges best.

Well, yes, but I think the issue is the person in question remains under the delusion that she is still a member of the committees.

Edited June 10, 2024 at 09:57 PM by Josh Martin

[Rob Elsman]

The committee has the procedural mechanisms in place to disabuse her of her false opinion. I would certainly hope it wouldn't come to this, but the members can escort her to the door under compulsion to leave.

[Richard Brown]

Guest Wyatt, I am assuming that your bylaws or other rules dictate this procedure for the "moderator" of a committee to serve for two years and to also serve as an at-large member of two other committees.  Assuming that is the case, then when the outgoing moderator's term as moderator expired, her term as a member ex-officio of the other two committees also expired.  The new moderator is now a member of those two committees by virtue of his position as the new moderator.  The outgoing moderator's term has expired and she is no longer a member of those committees.  She was a member "ex-officio", a term meaning she served by virtue of her position as moderator.  When her term as moderator ended, so ended her membership ex-officio on those other committees.

I'm curious as to the rationale that the outgoing moderator is using to say she is still a member of the other committees.  I'm also curious as to whether the new moderator has attended or tried to attend any of those committee meetings and if not, why not.

Finally, has anyone talked to your president about this situation?  That seems like the person to go to for relief.  The chairs of the other two committees might also be able to help resolve the matter.  It seems that someone with some authority needs to tell her she is no longer an at-large member of those committees.

 

[Atul Kapur]

You tell her that she is no longer a member of the committee and that only members of the committee are allowed to attend. If you wish, adopt a motion that any non-members must leave. Then sit there and stare at her until she leaves.

Under no circumstances should you proceed with the business of the committee until she leaves. And, if you have unfortunately been doing that, then absolutely don't allow her to participate in discussions or debate.

[Joshua Katz]

On 6/10/2024 at 2:37 PM, Guest Wyatt said:

-Now the problem . . . the end of the Old Moderator's term has arrived, the Vice Moderator has moved up to the New Moderator position, has been sworn in, and the physical gavel passed.  

I've seen this before. It doesn't usually turn out well.

 

[Gary Novosielski]

On 6/10/2024 at 8:45 PM, Joshua Katz said:

I've seen this before. It doesn't usually turn out well.

 

It's déjà vu all over again.

[Guest Wyatt]

Thank you all for these VERY Helpful answers