Voting

[Guest Pcamp]

We have established a new pto and in our bylaws it states that all members within good standing are eligible to vote. We have not started our membership drive yet and at our first meeting we voted on some issues, everyone was allowed to vote. IS that a true vote?

[David A Foulkes]

We have established a new pto and in our bylaws it states that all members within good standing are eligible to vote. We have not started our membership drive yet and at our first meeting we voted on some issues, everyone was allowed to vote. IS that a true vote?

Do your bylaws define "good standing?" Per RONR, a member is a member is a member, and one of the rights of membership is voting. So unless you specify how a member is in "bad standing", all members can vote. But stay tuned for more replies.

[Rob Elsman]

We have established a new pto and in our bylaws it states that all members within good standing are eligible to vote. We have not started our membership drive yet and at our first meeting we voted on some issues, everyone was allowed to vote. IS that a true vote?

If there were enough illegal voters to have affected the result of the vote, then the vote is null and void.

[Guest pcamp]

Do your bylaws define "good standing?" Per RONR, a member is a member is a member, and one of the rights of membership is voting. So unless you specify how a member is in "bad standing", all members can vote. But stay tuned for more replies.

[Guest pcamp]

Our bylaws state

Members with current paid dues will have voting privileges

Being that it is a newly formed group and the membership drive has not happened yet, wouldn't everyone be allowed to vote? how would our bylaws and officers be able to be voted in then? There were no "members" to ote on that. And we couldn't start our membership drive without the amount of dues voted on.

[Rob Elsman]

Our bylaws state

Members with current paid dues will have voting privileges

Being that it is a newly formed group and the membership drive has not happened yet, wouldn't everyone be allowed to vote? how would our bylaws and officers be able to be voted in then? There were no "members" to ote on that. And we couldn't start our membership drive without the amount of dues voted on.

The bylaw is not suspendable.

[hmtcastle]

Our bylaws state

Members with current paid dues will have voting privileges

Being that it is a newly formed group and the membership drive has not happened yet, wouldn't everyone be allowed to vote? how would our bylaws and officers be able to be voted in then? There were no "members" to ote on that.

Well, it looks like you may have adopted bylaws which prevent you from ever having any voting members since no one paid the required dues and the required dues aren't specified.

When you say, "wouldn't everyone be allowed to vote?", do you mean literally "everyone"? If I was there could I have voted? That's usually what happens at a so-called "mass meeting" but once you adopt bylaws you've usually defined what it means to be a member. Which you seem to have done.

[Guest pcamp]

The bylaw is not suspendable.

So how do you ote on officers and bylaws then? How do you start an organization that needs those two things to start? How can then by vote on then?

[hmtcastle]

So how do you ote on officers and bylaws then? How do you start an organization that needs those two things to start? How can then by vote on then?

See Section 54 of RONR, "Organization of a Permanent Society".

[Guest pcamp]

Well, it looks like you may have adopted bylaws which prevent you from ever having any voting members since no one paid the required dues and the required dues aren't specified.

When you say, "wouldn't everyone be allowed to vote?", do you mean literally "everyone"? If I was there could I have voted? That's usually what happens at a so-called "mass meeting" but once you adopt bylaws you've usually defined what it means to be a member. Which you seem to have done.

So how do you vote on officers and bylaws then? How do you start an organization that needs those two things to start? How can then by vote on then? I am speaking of a Parent teacher group within a school.

Back to top of the page up there ^

[Rob Elsman]

See Section 54 of RONR, "Organization of a Permanent Society".

...before you organize the society.

[hmtcastle]

...before you organize the society.

At this point I think they're still dis-organized.

[Guest pcamp]

...before you organize the society.

So how do I organize it? In order to obtain an EIN I need officers and bylaws. In order to have officers and bylaws I have to have a vote, in order to have a vote I need members with paid dues. Can't have members with paid dues until the amount is voted on, can't until we have paid members... do you see where this is going? Which came first? Can't do one without the other... suggestions?

[David A Foulkes]

So how do I organize it? In order to obtain an EIN I need officers and bylaws. In order to have officers and bylaws I have to have a vote, in order to have a vote I need members with paid dues. Can't have members with paid dues until the amount is voted on, can't until we have paid members... do you see where this is going? Which came first? Can't do one without the other... suggestions?

See Section 54 of RONR, "Organization of a Permanent Society".

[Guest pcamp]

Read RONR section 54 doesnt seem to apply they speak of voting also. Their members don't have to be paid members.

[hmtcastle]

Read RONR section 54 doesnt seem to apply they speak of voting also. Their members don't have to be paid members.

As I said, you may have adopted bylaws which prevent you from having any voting members. You might want to start over.

[Chris Harrison]

Read RONR section 54 doesnt seem to apply they speak of voting also. Their members don't have to be paid members.

RONR pp. 542-543 seems to answer your question. If the bylaws have not been adopted yet (hopefully you all will then take this opportunity to state what the dues are) then you still are functioning as a body which is organizing and as soon as the bylaws are adopted take a recess to collect the dues and then proceed on. If you all have already adopted the bylaws then collect dues and proceed on. However, since the bylaws don't specify how much the dues are I think it could be reasonable to argue that the absence of an amount means the dues are $0 (for now). Some may not like that idea but if they don't they are shoveling more sand into the hole they are standing in.

[Guest pcamp]

RONR pp. 542-543 seems to answer your question. If the bylaws have not been adopted yet (hopefully you all will then take this opportunity to state what the dues are) then you still are functioning as a body which is organizing and as soon as the bylaws are adopted take a recess to collect the dues and then proceed on. If you all have already adopted the bylaws then collect dues and proceed on. However, since the bylaws don't specify how much the dues are I think it could be reasonable to argue that the absence of an amount means the dues are $0 (for now). Some may not like that idea but if they don't they are shoveling more sand into the hole they are standing in.

They were voted on as were the officers, the byaws do state how much the dues are.

[hmtcastle]

And we couldn't start our membership drive without the amount of dues voted on.

They were voted on as were the officers, the byaws do state how much the dues are.

Which is it? The amount of dues has not been voted on or the bylaws do state how much the dues are?

Has anyone paid their dues?

[Guest pcamp]

The amount of dues are stated within the bylaws, and the bylaws were voted on. no members have paid dues yet

[hmtcastle]

Members with current paid dues will have voting privileges

no members have paid dues yet

Problem solved: no one can vote.

Why not set an example and pay your dues?

[Josh Martin]

So how do I organize it? In order to obtain an EIN I need officers and bylaws. In order to have officers and bylaws I have to have a vote, in order to have a vote I need members with paid dues. Can't have members with paid dues until the amount is voted on, can't until we have paid members... do you see where this is going? Which came first? Can't do one without the other... suggestions?

The amount of dues are stated within the bylaws, and the bylaws were voted on. no members have paid dues yet

Typically, the founding members of the organization pay their dues immediately upon the formation of the organization so you don't have this problem. But since the amount of dues are set, it seems the solution is for people to pay their dues and become members. As paying the initial dues appears to be a requirement of membership, I'm not sure you actually have any members yet.

[Gary c Tesser]

Typically, the founding members of the organization pay their dues immediately upon the formation of the organization so you don't have this problem. But since the amount of dues are set, it seems the solution is for people to pay their dues and become members. As paying the initial dues appears to be a requirement of membership, I'm not sure you actually have any members yet.

Hmm. Where did the bylaws come from?