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Shmuel Gerber

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Everything posted by Shmuel Gerber

  1. A better way to think about the amendment is that it is changing what the dollar amount of the donation will be if the main motion is adopted. A proper amendment is not "to donate $750 to the Girl Guides", but rather "to strike out '$500' and insert '$750'". The chair puts the amendment to vote like this: "The question is on striking out '$500' and inserting '$750', so that if this amendment is adopted, the main motion will be 'to donate $750 to the Girl Guides'. Those in favor of striking out '$500' and inserting '$750', say aye. . . . Those opposed, say no." If the amendment is adopted, the chair then says, "The question is on the main motion as amended, 'to donate $750 to the Girl Guides'". Note that an amendment to change the dollar amount is a motion to strike out and insert, not a motion to substitute. The same thing could be accomplished by a motion to substitute, but a vote would still have to be taken on the main motion in its amended form (i.e., as worded in the substitute). A motion to substitute would be "I move to substitute the following for the pending motion: 'To donate $750 to the Girl Guides'". (This is not the same thing as a motion simply "to donate $750 to the Girl Guides", which is not in order when another motion is pending.)
  2. It depends on whether the sections parallel each other and could be taken just as well from the revision as from the substitute. Would the article as a whole make sense if only section 1 were substituted for section 1, and if only the other sections were substituted for the other sections? If the answers are "yes" and "yes", then the motion to substitute can be divided. Otherwise, the desired result will have to be achieved by some form of secondary amendment.
  3. See if RONR (11th ed.), p. 274, ll.20–29 answers your question.
  4. I agree that the phrase "A two-thirds vote of the membership polled via mail/email" is highly ambiguous, but there is nothing about the word "poll" to suggest that it's not an actual vote. RONR has an entire section called "MOTIONS RELATING TO METHODS OF VOTING AND THE POLLS", and it describes motions to "close the polls" and "reopen the polls". It also refers to a "polling place" at a convention. Well, any vote by mail is against the whole idea of Robert's Rules, in the sense that a decision is being made directly by a vote without any opportunity for formal deliberations and possible persuasion among the members. People might have no idea what the ramifications of the amendment are, or what the arguments for it and against it might be. And there is no opportunity for compromise or to improve the language of the amendment without starting the process over again. In a vote (or poll) by (e)mail, the voters can choose to adopt or reject, but not to amend.
  5. The OP didn't say anything about a motion: "The recommendation was Tabled by the Board until one can be found." This motion hasn't died because it hasn't even been born.
  6. So the only remaining question is whether the chair can remove a nonmember who is annoying but not disorderly.
  7. Well, this is all a neat way for the president and the board to force the vice-president out of office and to stand for election again. :-)
  8. Sorry for the inconvenience, folks. There are no pages. The pages are blank. Scrunched into a ball and tossed in the circular file. It was all just an accident, really. But it's good to know that if we ever make some pages, people will notice them!
  9. Not welcome to Pages! I have no idea why it's doing that, and I don't remember it asking me to approve a message.
  10. Hey, check this out. This question has come up before. http://www.robertsrules.com/faq.html#17 🙂
  11. Yes. But it probably doesn't matter, and it doesn't accomplish anything unless a quorum is present.
  12. Since we all seem to be guessing what this is about, maybe it's actually a mail-in ballot that is not supposed to be secret. It's not obvious to me that it would be against the rules to have someone else fill in a mail-in ballot for the member.
  13. Why is this posted as a graphic instead of text?
  14. Sounds like a legal question to me. Sounds like it could be both a legal issue and dependent on the rules in RONR to me.
  15. But if the law allows the bylaws to take precedence, and the bylaws prescribe RONR, and RONR says you can't do it . . .
  16. Why not? RONR specifically forbids boards to act by written consent without a meeting, even if unanimous, unless authorized in the bylaws.
  17. It could be both a legal issue and dependent on the rules in RONR, as in this topic.
  18. Well, I'm glad we got that sorted out.
  19. What about this, from page 336: "Renewal of motions is limited by the basic principle that an assembly cannot be asked to decide the same, or substantially the same, question twice during one session—except through a motion to reconsider a vote (37) or a motion to rescind an action (35), or in connection with amending something already adopted (see also pp. 74–75)."
  20. It's too soon to recapitulate -- I haven't even capitulated yet.
  21. Rhyme, shmime. 🙂 That's not an accurate summary of the process, for a couple of reasons. First, before there are any votes to tabulate, the members have to vote, which happens only when the chair puts the question, clearly indicating what is being voted on. Second, in a great many instances (nobody, AFAIK, has tabulated exactly what percentage), there is no tabulation involved in deciding which side has prevailed in the vote; the chair simply estimates which side is greater by looking at the members who have risen or listening to the members who have responded to a voice vote.
  22. A motion to adjourn to the next stated (regular) meeting sounds to me like an ordinary motion to adjourn, which in the circumstances you describe is a privileged motion. (However, once the motion is carried, it doesn't really matter whether it should have been a main motion or not.) The pending motion would be taken up as the first item of Unfinished Business at the next meeting (unless there is a "special order" set for the next meeting, and the pending motion is not also a special order).
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