Guest Richard Posted August 11, 2011 at 01:58 PM Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 at 01:58 PM As a member of Council and on the losing end of a motion that passed 4-3 with the Mayor breaking a 3-3 tie. (7 member Council with one absent)Can anyone advise what my options are?1) Can I bring up for discussion the question (topic) at the next regular meeting?2) If the Topic comes up by others, can I participate in the discussion?3) I realize I can't motion to rescind, but can I motion to seek more information, or to seek input from the public regarding the topic? (request for special called meeting or public hearing, it will be months before the passing motion can be carried out)Thanks for any help!Richard in VA+++++++++++++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Harrison Posted August 11, 2011 at 02:12 PM Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 at 02:12 PM 1) Can I bring up for discussion the question (topic) at the next regular meeting?Yes. You can move to Rescind/Amend Something Previously Adopted (RONR pp. 293-299).2) If the Topic comes up by others, can I participate in the discussion?You are free to participate as freely as any other member.3) I realize I can't motion to rescind, Why not? but can I motion to seek more information, or to seek input from the public regarding the topic?(request for special called meeting or public hearingIf the bylaws provide for calling a Special Meeting you can try to get one called and it would be up to the Council (and any applicable rules and/or laws) as to how much involvement (if any) the public gets in the proceedings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Richard Posted August 11, 2011 at 02:31 PM Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 at 02:31 PM I've always understood that a Council Member (me) on the losing end of a motion made by a different member of Council, and one whose motion passed, that I can't offer a motion to rescind. I voted "No." Is this NOT correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted August 11, 2011 at 02:32 PM Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 at 02:32 PM I've always understood that a Council Member (me) on the losing end of a motion made by a different member of Council, and one whose motion passed, that I can't offer a motion to rescind. I voted "No." Is this NOT correct?You're thinking of a motion to Reconsider the vote. Rescind is a totally different animal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Richard Posted August 11, 2011 at 02:41 PM Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 at 02:41 PM So your suggesting I can Motion To Reconsider the vote, BUT NOT Rescind.Can you briefly explain the difference between Rescind and Reconsider? Or at least, in how they apply to what I can do, and what I can not do.(I did not make the motion, I voted against it)Thanks!Richard in VA+++++++++++++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted August 11, 2011 at 02:48 PM Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 at 02:48 PM So your suggesting I can Motion To Reconsider the vote, BUT NOT Rescind.Can you briefly explain the difference between Rescind and Reconsider? Or at least, in how they apply to what I can do, and what I can not do.(I did not make the motion, I voted against it)Thanks!Richard in VA+++++++++++++No, and I'm sorry I wasn't clear. As Chris already noted, any member, regardless of how they voted, may move to rescind the adopted motion, assuming it's still applicable. See RONR, p. 293ff for details. So go ahead and make that motion if you want.You could not move to Reconsider because you did not vote on the prevailing side, and the timeframe for doing so has passed. See RONR, p. 304ff for full details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Harrison Posted August 11, 2011 at 02:59 PM Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 at 02:59 PM So your suggesting I can Motion To Reconsider the vote, BUT NOT Rescind.No. A motion to Reconsider would be out of order at this point. However, you can move to Rescind or Amend the previously adopted motion.Can you briefly explain the difference between Rescind and Reconsider? Or at least, in how they apply to what I can do, and what I can not do.RONR p. 294 says, "Rescind - also known as Repeal or Annul - is the motion by which a previous action or order can be canceled or countermanded. The effect of Rescind is to strike out an entire main motion, resolution, rule, bylaw, section, or paragraph that has been adopted at some previous time. Amend Something Previously Adopted is the motion that can be used if it is desired to change only a part of the text, or to substitute a different version." These motions can be made at any meeting (up until the point where the motion has been fully executed) and by any member. RONR p. 304 says, "Reconsider - a motion of American origin - enables a majority in an assembly, within a limited time and without notice, to bring back for further consideration a motion which has already been voted on. The purpose of reconsidering a vote is to permit correction of hasty, ill-advised, or erroneous action, or to take into account added information or a changed situation that has developed since the taking of the vote." That motion has a limited time in which it can be made (see RONR p. 305 for details) and can only be made by someone who voted with the prevailing side.For a more in depth delving into the motions see RONR pp. 293-299 and pp. 304-325. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Richard Posted August 11, 2011 at 04:51 PM Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 at 04:51 PM Thank you Chris and George for your GOOD HELP!Richard in VA++++++++++++++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmuel Gerber Posted August 11, 2011 at 05:20 PM Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 at 05:20 PM As a member of Council and on the losing end of a motion that passed 4-3 with the Mayor breaking a 3-3 tie. (7 member Council with one absent)I'm still stuck on this part. :-)I guess in Richard's case, the mayor isn't considered to be a member of the council but still has a tie-breaking vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Richard Posted August 11, 2011 at 06:51 PM Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 at 06:51 PM We have 7 members of Council and a Mayor that does not have voting power unless it's a tie vote.In this case, one member of Council was absent and the vote was 3-3, then the Mayor broke the tie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted August 11, 2011 at 07:00 PM Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 at 07:00 PM We have 7 members of Council and a Mayor that does not have voting power unless it's a tie vote.In this case, one member of Council was absent and the vote was 3-3, then the Mayor broke the tie.SG can rest easy now.....thanks for returning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Richard Posted August 11, 2011 at 09:55 PM Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 at 09:55 PM One more thing, If I might?If anyone on Council motions to rescind and there is a second to the motion but it fails to pass a majority vote.1) What choices does the motion maker have? Does he/she have a waiting period before he/she can make the same motion to rescind?2) Can any OTHER member of Council repeat the same motion later in the same meeting?THANKS!Richard in VA+++++++++++++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Hunt Posted August 11, 2011 at 10:02 PM Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 at 10:02 PM One more thing, If I might?If anyone on Council motions to rescind and there is a second to the motion but it fails to pass a majority vote.Rescind requires two-thirds vote to be adopted unless notice is given or a majority of the membership votes for it, per RONR. Given that you are working in the context of a small board, a majority of the membership may be attainable. We are here assuming that your council uses RONR; if it does not, then this may not apply.1) What choices does the motion maker have? Does he/she have a waiting period before he/she can make the same motion to rescind?2) Can any OTHER member of Council repeat the same motion later in the same meeting?THANKS!Richard in VA+++++++++++++In both cases, the motion can be renewed each session. Ordinarily a session would consist of a single regular meeting, but this is often different for government bodies. You should talk to someone familiar with the laws defining your council as to the exact circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary c Tesser Posted August 12, 2011 at 12:39 PM Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 at 12:39 PM Rescind requires two-thirds vote to be adopted, per RONR. ...Capt. Hunt, what about the other two ways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted August 12, 2011 at 01:17 PM Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 at 01:17 PM Capt. Hunt, what about the other two ways?Oh, Gary, take the plunge. (hint: p. 295) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Richard Posted August 12, 2011 at 02:58 PM Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 at 02:58 PM In July of 2010, the Council adopted "the Standard Version of the Robert's Rules of Order which is the one that requires a second to a motion." This is how the motion is worded and it carried 7-0 and is adopted.Would anyone know, technically, what the "Standard Version" is?ThanksRichard in VA+++++++++++++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry4000 Posted August 12, 2011 at 05:05 PM Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 at 05:05 PM In July of 2010, the Council adopted "the Standard Version of the Robert's Rules of Order which is the one that requires a second to a motion." This is how the motion is worded and it carried 7-0 and is adopted.Would anyone know, technically, what the "Standard Version" is?ThanksRichard in VA+++++++++++++Wouldn't that question be better put to "The Council" since it adopted this "version"? Or, perhaps to the member who proposed the motion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted August 12, 2011 at 05:42 PM Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 at 05:42 PM Would anyone know, technically, what the "Standard Version" is?Not I. However, in the front of the current edition you will find:“This Tenth (10th) Edition supersedes all previous editions and is intended automatically to become the parliamentary authority in organizations whose bylaws prescribe “Roberts’ Rules of Order,” “Robert’s Rules of Order Revised,” “Robert’s Rules of Order Newly Revised,” or “the current edition of” any of these titles, or the like, without specifying a particular edition.” With luck, and hope, that covers it. But the Council might still have something else in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted August 12, 2011 at 05:48 PM Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 at 05:48 PM This would be the perfect time for Richard to bone up on amending something previously adopted (RONR, p. 293ff) and move to have the council adopt "the current edition of Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry4000 Posted August 12, 2011 at 06:08 PM Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 at 06:08 PM In July of 2010, the Council adopted "the Standard Version of the Robert's Rules of Order which is the one that requires a second to a motion." This is how the motion is worded and it carried 7-0 and is adopted.Would anyone know, technically, what the "Standard Version" is?ThanksRichard in VA+++++++++++++Wouldn't that question be better put to "The Council" since it adopted this "version"? Or, perhaps to the member who proposed the motion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Richard Posted August 12, 2011 at 07:22 PM Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 at 07:22 PM Richard does serve on the Council that adopted the "Standard Version" and will offer a motion as per George's advice. I've just spoken to the Town Attorney, he believes that the existing motion that carried safely assumes reference to the most recent edition, RONR 10th Edition, and would automatically follow any future editions.However I prefer clarity and plan to offer the motion to Adopt or to Amend.Thank you ALL for your further elaboration... Richard is kinda new at this, and now he awaits the $150 legal fee to show-up on the payment of bills.Richard in VA+++++++++++++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmuel Gerber Posted August 12, 2011 at 07:27 PM Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 at 07:27 PM In July of 2010, the Council adopted "the Standard Version of the Robert's Rules of Order which is the one that requires a second to a motion." This is how the motion is worded and it carried 7-0 and is adopted.Would anyone know, technically, what the "Standard Version" is?ThanksRichard in VA+++++++++++++Just taking a stab in the dark here, perhaps this motion was made in response to being informed that there is a set of more informal rules that are applicable to board meetings where there are not more than about a dozen members present (see RONR, 10th ed., pp. 470-471), and the council wished to make clear that it will follow the "standard" rules rather than these more informal ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted August 12, 2011 at 07:34 PM Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 at 07:34 PM Thank you ALL for your further elaboration... Richard is kinda new at this, and now he awaits the $150 legal fee to show-up on the payment of bills.Richard in VA+++++++++++++David says you're welcome.\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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