Guest cc Posted August 8, 2012 at 12:30 PM Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 at 12:30 PM It may seem like a simple answer, but I'm debating this topic with the VP. He says Robert's Rules of Order are clear: the President cannot vote. However, our board consists of 8 people total (including the President) and I interpret the rules as: the President can vote and make motions on boards and committees consisting of less than a dozen members. This has come up because as much as I try to expedite discussion, our board spends far too long on topics and I'd like to expedite things by making motions and voting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted August 8, 2012 at 12:37 PM Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 at 12:37 PM It may seem like a simple answer, but I'm debating this topic with the VP. He says Robert's Rules of Order are clear: the President cannot vote. However, our board consists of 8 people total (including the President) and I interpret the rules as: the President can vote and make motions on boards and committees consisting of less than a dozen members. This has come up because as much as I try to expedite discussion, our board spends far too long on topics and I'd like to expedite things by making motions and voting.Have you looked at FAQ #1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted August 8, 2012 at 01:02 PM Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 at 01:02 PM He says Robert's Rules of Order are clear: the President cannot vote.Well, he's half right. Point him to FAQ #1 (as advised). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cc Posted August 8, 2012 at 01:04 PM Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 at 01:04 PM I have and even quoted it to the VP but he replied "If you (as President) is a member of the voting body (that means you’re sitting not as the presiding officer) you have the exact same rights and privileges as all other members, etc., etc., etc. When you get down to the third sentence-when you are the presiding officer of any other type of assembly, it precludes you from exercising the rights to make motions or speak in debate while presiding and also requires refraining from voting except when your vote will make or break a tie (in other words, whenever your vote will affect the result)." So, unfortunately, I'm still confused. To me, I read that if the board is small (less than a dozen people) that the President can vote. We are a board made up of 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted August 8, 2012 at 01:23 PM Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 at 01:23 PM So are you going to believe FAQ#1 written by RONR's authors, or your VP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cc Posted August 8, 2012 at 01:32 PM Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 at 01:32 PM HA! FAQ#1. The VP is quite adamant that Roberts Rules state otherwise. I just had to get clarification and backup from the forum that there was no misinterpretation on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted August 8, 2012 at 01:32 PM Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 at 01:32 PM So, unfortunately, I'm still confused.Even if your board chooses not to operate under the relaxed rules available to small boards, the presiding officer, if a member of the board (which is usually the case) doesn't lose his right to vote simply because he's presiding. Yes, RONR says that, in most cases, he should refrain from exercising that right but he has the right to ignore that injunction. In other words, his right, as a member, to vote supersedes his obligation as the presiding officer not to.But now let's assume your board is operating under those relaxed rules. Then those restrictions are lifted and the presiding officer is free to participate as fully as any member. Show that section to your vice-president.Then proceed to act under those relaxed rules. If the vice-president is the only one who has a problem with this, then it's his problem, not yours (or the boards). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted August 8, 2012 at 05:26 PM Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 at 05:26 PM HA! FAQ#1. The VP is quite adamant that Roberts Rules state otherwise. I just had to get clarification and backup from the forum that there was no misinterpretation on my part.Well, that's easy then. Hand him a copy and ask him to show you where it says that. While it's true that presiding officers normally should not vote, nor make motions, nor speak in debate, they do not lose these rights, nor any other rights of membership because they are the presiding officer. They remain members no matter where they're seated in the room.And by the way, the presiding officer would also vote just as any other member would whenever the vote is by ballot, since that would not interfere with maintaining his impartiality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted August 8, 2012 at 07:32 PM Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 at 07:32 PM And by the way, the presiding officer would also vote just as any other member would whenever the vote is by ballot, since that would not interfere with maintaining his impartiality.And Guest_cc -- he can also vote when his vote will affect the result, impartiality be damned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmuel Gerber Posted August 9, 2012 at 03:07 PM Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 at 03:07 PM I have and even quoted it to the VP but he replied " . . . When you get down to the third sentence-when you are the presiding officer of any other type of assembly, it precludes you from exercising the rights to make motions or speak in debate while presiding and also requires refraining from voting except . . . Looks like he put the emphasis on the wrong word. Try this:When you get down to the third sentence-when you are the presiding officer of any other type of assembly, it precludes you from exercising the rights to make motions or speak in debate while presiding and also requires refraining from voting except . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Schafer Posted August 9, 2012 at 06:05 PM Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 at 06:05 PM I have and even quoted it to the VP but he replied "If you (as President) is a member of the voting body (that means you’re sitting not as the presiding officer) you have the exact same rights and privileges as all other members, etc., etc., etc.It sounds like your VP thinks that the presiding officer is not a member of the voting body. If this is the case, he is mistaken. Presiding over a meeting does not cause the presiding officer to lose his status as a member of the assembly. If the presiding officer is a member as defined in the bylaws, he is still a member even when presiding.When you get down to the third sentence-when you are the presiding officer of any other type of assembly, it precludes you from exercising the rights to make motions or speak in debate while presiding and also requires refraining from voting except when your vote will make or break a tie (in other words, whenever your vote will affect the result)."In the context of the discussion in FAQ #1, presiding is transitory. If the meeting is a board meeting with about a dozen members or less and if the presiding officer is a member of the board, then he can make motions, debate, and vote, just like any other member of the board. It does not matter that this person also presides over meetings of the assembly -- operating under the formal rules -- at other times.The text in RONR is clearer. The rules for small boards include: "If the chairman is a member [of the board], he may, without leaving the chair, speak in informal discussions and debate, and vote on all questions." There's also a footnote that the chair can make motions, too. Take a look at RONR, 11th ed., pages 487-88. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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