Guest Jason Barber Posted November 16, 2012 at 04:47 PM Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 at 04:47 PM Our by-laws are very specific and allow only for by-laws to be changed twice annually (once in the middle of the fiscal year, and again towards the end). We have a very serious situation that needs to be handled prior to the beginning of our next fiscal year which begins 3/1. Our next meeting that allows for changes to our by-laws is not until May. How can we bring this business to the assembly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Harrison Posted November 16, 2012 at 04:57 PM Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 at 04:57 PM If the bylaws say that they can only be amended in the middle and near the end of the FY then they can only be amended at those times. This is a wild shot in the dark but where is the fiscal year defined? Chances are good that the bylaws define the fiscal year and so you are stuck but if by some strange chance it is defined somewhere that you can change it without amending the bylaws you might be able to make an end run around the bylaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jason Posted November 16, 2012 at 06:08 PM Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 at 06:08 PM No - it is specific saying change in May and Sept.. We have 3 "classes" of members - owners, long term renters and short term renters. According to our by-laws, only owners are allowed to have a boat at on the property or at the dock year round and overnight. Other classes have some considerations but can't be overnight in the winter. We are having a festival of lights for a weekend on our River and it involves cash prizes, etc. and we want to dock lots of decorated boats but 1 person is refusing because they say we will violate our by-laws allowing for the boats to be there all weekend. Can we possibly make a rule for a 1-time celebration to allow all boats at the dock? Or is he right - there is nothing we can do because we can't vote until next May? Appreciate the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g40 Posted November 16, 2012 at 08:19 PM Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 at 08:19 PM No - it is specific saying change in May and Sept.. We have 3 "classes" of members - owners, long term renters and short term renters. According to our by-laws, only owners are allowed to have a boat at on the property or at the dock year round and overnight. Other classes have some considerations but can't be overnight in the winter. We are having a festival of lights for a weekend on our River and it involves cash prizes, etc. and we want to dock lots of decorated boats but 1 person is refusing because they say we will violate our by-laws allowing for the boats to be there all weekend. Can we possibly make a rule for a 1-time celebration to allow all boats at the dock? Or is he right - there is nothing we can do because we can't vote until next May? Appreciate the help.What is (or might be) the "penalty for a violation? If not set in stone, then you might just have folks "accept"the penalty. Maybe there is not a penalty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Ed Posted November 16, 2012 at 08:27 PM Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 at 08:27 PM The one member is right to demand enforcement of the By-laws. But as g40 stated, what is the penalty for 'breaking' this By-law? If the Board is free to set the penalty then they could make it a token dollar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted November 16, 2012 at 10:13 PM Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 at 10:13 PM What is (or might be) the "penalty for a violation? If not set in stone, then you might just have folks "accept"the penalty. Maybe there is not a penalty?But as g40 stated, what is the penalty for 'breaking' this By-law? If the Board is free to set the penalty then they could make it a token dollar.Are you both really suggesting that the association deliberately violate its bylaws?And where did all this talk about a "penalty" come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted November 16, 2012 at 11:26 PM Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 at 11:26 PM No - it is specific saying change in May and Sept.. We have 3 "classes" of members - owners, long term renters and short term renters. According to our by-laws, only owners are allowed to have a boat at on the property or at the dock year round and overnight. Other classes have some considerations but can't be overnight in the winter. We are having a festival of lights for a weekend on our River and it involves cash prizes, etc. and we want to dock lots of decorated boats but 1 person is refusing because they say we will violate our by-laws allowing for the boats to be there all weekend. Can we possibly make a rule for a 1-time celebration to allow all boats at the dock? Or is he right - there is nothing we can do because we can't vote until next May? Appreciate the help.The Bylaws may not be suspended unless the Bylaws so provide, and apparently they cannot be amended until May. So if the proposed rule does indeed conflict with the Bylaws, it seems you are out of luck.As some other posters have suggested, you could try to get creative and just do a terrible job of enforcing the rule for the duration of the event, but I would not advise it, and if you decide to pursue that avenue anyway it may be wise to consult a lawyer first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sMargaret Posted November 16, 2012 at 11:51 PM Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 at 11:51 PM If your directors knowingly accept a violation of your bylaws, and if something were to happen at the event, there may be some liability issues - I second that suggestion of consulting a lawyer, with an amendment to also talk to your insurance agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nancily incensed! Posted November 17, 2012 at 11:40 AM Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 at 11:40 AM I commend and recommend the on-point comments of Edgar, Josh, and sMargaret."Penalty"? In whose book is subversion of the organization not grounds for expulsion, which itself could be excessive leniency? (Do we not think that deliberate flouting of the bylaws, and encouraging the deliberate flouting of the bylaws, to be subversion of the organization?)captcha 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted November 17, 2012 at 02:01 PM Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 at 02:01 PM I commend and recommend the on-point comments of Edgar, Josh, and sMargaret."Penalty"? In whose book is subversion of the organization not grounds for expulsion, which itself could be excessive leniency? (Do we not think that deliberate flouting of the bylaws, and encouraging the deliberate flouting of the bylaws, to be subversion of the organization?)captcha 3.Mine, for one, and, indirectly, RONR.RONR gives the assembly the ability to set penalties. For example, assume that the President of an organization cancels a meeting. The bylaws do not grant the president that ability, and set the date of the meeting. We could easily argue that that president has violated the bylaws and should be subject to discipline.Now, the organization's membership is largely located in an area just devastated by a hurricane. Their meeting hall is severely damaged and unusable. While the President might be guilty of violating the bylaws by cancelling the meeting, should he be penalized for that? The President might even plead guilty to this offense. Should there be a severe punishment? The assembly has, within its power to determine guilt, or confirm it (de facto) if the President pleads guilty, and decline to inflict a penalty. Personally, I would find the President guilty in this circumstance, and vote against inflicting any punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Really??? Posted November 18, 2012 at 12:07 AM Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 at 12:07 AM I think willingly violating the bylaws (and just winking at it) potentially sets a bad precedent. You never know what circumstance down the road will cause one to say "we did it back then!" An unwise thing even to suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted November 18, 2012 at 02:33 AM Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 at 02:33 AM I think willingly violating the bylaws (and just winking at it) potentially sets a bad precedent. You never know what circumstance down the road will cause one to say "we did it back then!" An unwise thing even to suggest.The precedent is worth the paper it is printed on. Since it is not printed, you can determine the value of it.The assembly gets to use its judgment in inflicting a penalty, except as the bylaws otherwise provide. I live in a city where a a woman that murdered eight of her children got house arrest for 5 years and then probation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Really???vrGVP8 Posted November 18, 2012 at 01:10 PM Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 at 01:10 PM Wasn't referring at all to imposing penalties. Willingly violating the bylaws for a "one time celebration" will likely lead to members suggesting it be done again, just this one time again, and then again, just one more time. After all, we did it for that... Not a road I'd want to go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted November 18, 2012 at 04:11 PM Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 at 04:11 PM Wasn't referring at all to imposing penalties. Willingly violating the bylaws for a "one time celebration" will likely lead to members suggesting it be done again, just this one time again, and then again, just one more time. After all, we did it for that... Not a road I'd want to go down.Strictly speaking, the suggestion by some members was not that the board willfully violate the Bylaws, but rather that it impose no penalty (or a token penalty) on the individuals who do violate the Bylaws. I still concur that it's a bad idea, but so far as I can see, no member has yet suggested that the board adopt a motion directly violating its Bylaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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