BryanSullo Posted January 24, 2013 at 08:58 PM Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 at 08:58 PM Hi, all. It's been a while.Question: For an ordinary society where a bylaws change requires previous notice, under what heading would the motion to amend the bylaws fall? My guess is General Orders, but I can't find a reference in RONR that makes this clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted January 24, 2013 at 09:06 PM Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 at 09:06 PM RONR (11th ed.), p. 596, ll. 25-27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted January 24, 2013 at 09:08 PM Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 at 09:08 PM Right. p. 596, lines 25,26.You mean you couldn't find those two little lines in the (roughly) twenty-four thousand and eighty lines in the book? Next time apply yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted January 24, 2013 at 09:12 PM Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 at 09:12 PM If the motion is coming from a report of the bylaws committee, you would take it up right there. RONR (11th ed.), p. 356, ll. 13-15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted January 24, 2013 at 09:19 PM Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 at 09:19 PM But not if notice is required, as is frequently the case with bylaw amendments. You couldn't just tell the (bylaws) committee to gin up some bylaw amendments, report on them next meeting, and be able to consider them (otherwise sight unseen) then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted January 24, 2013 at 09:23 PM Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 at 09:23 PM But not if notice is required, as is frequently the case with bylaw amendments. You couldn't just tell the (bylaws) committee to gin up some bylaw amendments, report on them next meeting, and be able to consider them (otherwise sight unseen) then.John, we're certainly assuming, as Mr. Sullo said that notice is required, and the committee can certainly give notice. His initial question doesn't indicate if a member gave notice or if the committee did. If the committee did and moves for the adoption of the amendments during their report, you take it up right there. I just wanted to give him two points of reference, since either could be applicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanSullo Posted January 24, 2013 at 09:31 PM Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 at 09:31 PM Found it. Thanks!(You mean neither of you could have typed "General Orders" next to the reference, just to answer the question? . . . Gotta make me work for it, huh?)Am I right in assuming that any motion requiring previous notice would fall under the same heading (unless it was made as part of a report)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted January 24, 2013 at 10:04 PM Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 at 10:04 PM Don't think so. p. 365 lists what can become a general order (and mysteriously leaves out a noticed bylaw amendment).But it most certainly does not include any old motion requiring a notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanSullo Posted January 24, 2013 at 10:15 PM Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 at 10:15 PM That leads to the next question: Where would other motions requiring notice be made? New Business?(And, I think your p. 365 is different than mine.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wondering Posted January 24, 2013 at 11:35 PM Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 at 11:35 PM Probably because your page 365 isn't page 356, which is what he cited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted January 24, 2013 at 11:54 PM Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 at 11:54 PM That leads to the next question: Where would other motions requiring notice be made? New Business?Let's put it this way: With the exception of amendments to the Bylaws, the fact that a motion requires notice does not affect where it falls in the order of business. So yes, the motion would come up under New Business, unless there is some other reason it would be taken up under a different heading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanSullo Posted January 25, 2013 at 01:25 PM Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 at 01:25 PM Etiological questions don't usually get too far on this board, but I'm going to ask it anyway: Why?What makes a bylaws change different from any other motion requiring notice, that one should be a general order and one should be new business? I'm under the impression that the purpose of previous notice is to allow the greatest number of interested parties to be attendant when the motion is made. If so, shouldn't there be some guarantee that the motion actually will be made at that meeting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted January 25, 2013 at 02:32 PM Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 at 02:32 PM First question: I am tempted to answer "Just beCAUSE, that's why!" (Massachusetts folks have such big vocabularies.)Guarantee? Sure, see p. 307, line 23,26.The cited rule is in the context of R/ASPA but it seems sufficiently general that it should apply to any previously noticed motion. After all, any member is free to move anything (within the purposes of the association, of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted January 25, 2013 at 02:48 PM Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 at 02:48 PM Etiological questions don't usually get too far on this board, but I'm going to ask it anyway: Why?What makes a bylaws change different from any other motion requiring notice, that one should be a general order and one should be new business? I'm under the impression that the purpose of previous notice is to allow the greatest number of interested parties to be attendant when the motion is made. If so, shouldn't there be some guarantee that the motion actually will be made at that meeting?If you are willing to carefully review the history of the rules relating to motions to amend the bylaws through all of the editions of Robert's Rules of Order and Parliamentary Law you will find your answer. If you don't want to bother with that, just accept the rule as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanSullo Posted January 25, 2013 at 05:55 PM Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 at 05:55 PM First question: I am tempted to answer "Just beCAUSE, that's why!" (Massachusetts folks have such big vocabularies.)No, just a big thesaurus. Guarantee? Sure, see p. 307, line 23,26.The cited rule is in the context of R/ASPA but it seems sufficiently general that it should apply to any previously noticed motion. After all, any member is free to move anything (within the purposes of the association, of course).Therefore, if member A gives previous notice and then no one brings up the measure at the next meeting, it's not incumbent upon the chair to do anything to rectify it. Right?If you are willing to carefully review the history of the rules relating to motions to amend the bylaws through all of the editions of Robert's Rules of Order and Parliamentary Law you will find your answer.I might just do that, Dan.If you don't want to bother with that, just accept the rule as it is.But, more than likely, I'll do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted January 25, 2013 at 06:44 PM Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 at 06:44 PM Therefore, if member A gives previous notice and then no one brings up the measure at the next meeting, it's not incumbent upon the chair to do anything to rectify it. Right?Right. As chair, that (i.e., nothing) is what I would do. The fewer motions that are made, the faster we can go home and watch the Wizards game. (Or the Bruins, perhaps, but why?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted January 25, 2013 at 07:05 PM Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 at 07:05 PM Right. As chair, that (i.e., nothing) is what I would do. The fewer motions that are made, the faster we can go home and watch the Wizards game. (Or the Bruins, perhaps, but why?)So you wouldn't tell the member that it is order to make his motion at this time, if he chooses to make it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted January 25, 2013 at 07:19 PM Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 at 07:19 PM Right; I'm completely impartial as chair, remember. (Of course if I really wanted action on the motion... but that is another story.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted January 25, 2013 at 07:21 PM Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 at 07:21 PM Right; I'm completely impartial as chair, remember.(Of course if I really wanted action on the motion... but that is another story.)How does it show partiality to let a member who gave previous notice of a bylaw amendment know it is in order to bring up his motion under General Orders? I'd suggest the average member has no clue as to when they can bring it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanSullo Posted January 25, 2013 at 07:28 PM Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 at 07:28 PM How does it show partiality to let a member who gave previous notice of a bylaw amendment know it is in order to bring up his motion under General Orders? I'd suggest the average member has no clue as to when they can bring it up.The conversation had moved to "other" motions requiring previous notice. The bylaws amendment, apparently, is a different animal. I am interested, though, in the correct procedure regarding a bylaws amendment. When it comes up in General Orders, does the chair call on the person who gave notice to make the motion? Does the chair just state the motion as if it has been made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted January 25, 2013 at 07:41 PM Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 at 07:41 PM The former. The chair should always announce the next item of business that is in order, and in this case afford the member who gave previous notice the opportunity to make his motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanSullo Posted January 25, 2013 at 07:53 PM Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 at 07:53 PM Perfect. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanh49 Posted January 25, 2013 at 08:02 PM Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 at 08:02 PM What if the motion to amend the bylaws isn't made under general orders but under new business should the chair rule it out of order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted January 25, 2013 at 08:10 PM Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 at 08:10 PM What if the motion to amend the bylaws isn't made under general orders but under new business should the chair rule it out of order?No, why would he? RONR gives it a boost in priority over new business, but I can't think of a reason it can't be made there if no one wants it made under general orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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