Motion conflicts with Bylaw

[CACAUSER]

I have a problem.  In our by-laws (statutes) it states:

 

Article Ten 

Member's Welfare

 

Section 2. In the event of the death of any member of good standing, the Lodge shall present to his family or beneficiary the sum of Ten Dollars as a gift.  In the even of the death of any officer during his/her term of office or of any meritorious member, the sum to be presented by the Lodge to his family as a gift shall be determined at a special meeting, but not to exceed the amount of Twenty-five Dollars.

 

Someone in our Lodge just passed away and I received the following e-mail.  

 

I wish to make a motion that the Lodge make a memorial gift donation in  the memory of XXXXX in the amount of $100.00.  We have done this for other members, including past Presidents and believe it is fitting we do likewise with this occasion.  I ask that this motion be presented to the membership for a second and a vote.

 

It was seconded.

 

The person wants me to send this motion via e-mail for a vote by our membership.

 

Since the motion asks for an amount greater than our by-laws currently allow, is this motion Out of Order?  Can I amend or suspend the by-laws as written?  What about the use of e-mail to take a vote (if this is possible)?  As a new president,  I need an answer ASAP.  Can you give me advice on this?

 

Thank you in advance

[Chris Harrison]

If the bylaws say the most the organization can give to the deceased's family is $10 (or $25 for an officer or exceptional member) a motion to give $100 would not be in order and you should rule it as such.  Such a rule cannot be suspended.  If you all want to take the time to properly amend the bylaws to allow for gifting more money before considering the motion to make the $100 gift you can do so.  Voting by email isn't allowed unless the bylaws specifically authorize it (RONR pp. 98-99 & 423-424).  That being said nothing stops the members from giving as much as they want as an individual person (rather than as an organization). 

[Guest Edgar]

If the bylaws say the most the organization can give to the deceased's family is $10 (or $25 for an officer or exceptional member) a motion to give $100 would not be in order and you should rule it as such.

 

Though I'm not at all sure that that's what the bylaws say. The officer's gift seems like an upper limit but the $10 gift could be interpreted as a minimum.

 

Or, better yet, it looks like what's being proposed isn't a gift to the member's family (or beneficiary) but rather a donation (presumably to some charity) "in memory of" the deceased member. I don't think the rules cited necessarily prohibit this (and there seems to be some precedence).

[Josh Martin]

Though I'm not at all sure that that's what the bylaws say. The officer's gift seems like an upper limit but the $10 gift could be interpreted as a minimum.

 

Or, better yet, it looks like what's being proposed isn't a gift to the member's family (or beneficiary) but rather a donation (presumably to some charity) "in memory of" the deceased member. I don't think the rules cited necessarily prohibit this (and there seems to be some precedence).

 

It will, of course, be up to the organization to interpret its own bylaws, and the OP should see RONR, 11th ed., pgs. 588-591 for some Principles of Interpretation.

[Transpower]

RONR (11th ed.), p. 590, ll. 17-19:  "A prohibition or limitation prohibits everything greater than what is prohibited, or that goes beyond the limitation, but it permits what is less than the limitation...."  I conclude that for your organization you cannot pay more than $10 as a gift.  Incidentally, I think it unwise to include dollar amounts in bylaws.

[Timothy]

Incidentally, I think it unwise to include dollar amounts in bylaws.

 

If the intent is to discourage popularity contests in which the family of a well known person gets a lot of money and some other family may get nothing, where would you put dollar figures?

[Guest Edgar]

I conclude that for your organization you cannot pay more than $10 as a gift. 

 

They not only can, they must ("shall"). But that's for gifts to the deceased member's "family or beneficiary". Whether this applies to gifts to charities "in memory of" a deceased member is for the assembly to determine. I'd argue that it doesn't.

[Josh Martin]

If the intent is to discourage popularity contests in which the family of a well known person gets a lot of money and some other family may get nothing, where would you put dollar figures?

 

Standing rules.

[Timothy]

Standing rules.

 

Sure, but standing rules often require less effort to change than bylaws. I'm thinking more along the lines of someone who never bothers to look at the financial report shows up at the meeting and says something like, "$10 isn't enough for a man like that. I say we ought to give them $500." After being told about the standing rule, he makes a motion to change the rule, and in the heat of the moment he convinces two-thirds to vote with him. Whereas, if the rule were in the bylaws, they might have been required to wait until the next meeting to vote and cooler heads would prevail to keep the gift more in line with what would be fair for everyone.

[Josh Martin]

Sure, but standing rules often require less effort to change than bylaws. I'm thinking more along the lines of someone who never bothers to look at the financial report shows up at the meeting and says something like, "$10 isn't enough for a man like that. I say we ought to give them $500." After being told about the standing rule, he makes a motion to change the rule, and in the heat of the moment he convinces two-thirds to vote with him. Whereas, if the rule were in the bylaws, they might have been required to wait until the next meeting to vote and cooler heads would prevail to keep the gift more in line with what would be fair for everyone.

 

I was just responding to your question about where else such a rule could be put. It is certainly correct that there is more flexibility if the rule is in the standing rules, and less flexibility if it is in the bylaws. It will be up to the society to determine which is preferable. I don't personally have a preference.

[CACAUSER]

Thank you for your replies, but I am still a little confused as to how to proceed.

 

Do you think I should allow or disallow the motion or second based upon the bylaws as already established.  Since we are too close to the funeral, a special meeting seems unavailable to us, and since we don't have emailing in our bylaws, what steps, if any, could be taken if the membership is amiable to doing a $100 donation.

 

Thank you

[Edgar Guest]

Do you think I should allow or disallow the motion or second based upon the bylaws as already established. . . .  what steps, if any, could be taken if the membership is amiable to doing a $100 donation.

 

The good news is that it's not up to you. You can rule the motion out of order (if you think it is) or you can put it before the assembly. If you rule it out of order a member can appeal your ruling. If you put it before the assembly a member can raise a point of order (which you'll have to rule on). Either way, it's up to the assembly (the members present) to determine whether this gift violates your rules or not.

 

Edited to add: You can't do any of this except at a meeting. So it might be too late to do anything before the funeral.

[Josh Martin]

Do you think I should allow or disallow the motion or second based upon the bylaws as already established.  Since we are too close to the funeral, a special meeting seems unavailable to us, and since we don't have emailing in our bylaws, what steps, if any, could be taken if the membership is amiable to doing a $100 donation.

 

Since voting by e-mail is not permitted in your bylaws, the answer for now is obvious - don't allow it.

 

When this situation arises in an actual meeting, make your best interpretation of whether the motion conflicts with the bylaws. If you think it does, rule it out of order. Such a ruling can be appealed from, and a majority vote is sufficient to overturn the chair's ruling. Perhaps the members disagree about whether the motion conflicts with the bylaws.

 

If the assembly agrees that the motion does, in fact, conflict with the bylaws and wish to continue anyway, the only option is to amend the bylaws.

[Timothy]

Since we are too close to the funeral, a special meeting seems unavailable to us, and since we don't have emailing in our bylaws, what steps, if any, could be taken if the membership is amiable to doing a $100 donation.

 

One option would be to have the person who is attempting to make the motion send $100 of his own money to whatever organization the memorial gift would go to. At the next meeting, a motion could be made to reemburse him. Of course, you would still have to decide if that is in line with your bylaws and if the motion failed he would be out $100, but it would free you of your time constraint.

[CACAUSER]

I want to thank you all for your advice and suggestions.  I am glad to have found this site, as I am sure there will other occasions where I will need your help with the RONR.

[Shmuel Gerber]

It will, of course, be up to the organization to interpret its own bylaws, and the OP should see RONR, 11th ed., pgs. 588-591 for some Principles of Interpretation.

 

Oh, but it's so tempting for us to try.

In this case, I think things are pretty clear. The lodge has its own unique way of letting the family of a deceased member (other than an officer) know what it really thought of him. If the family gets no gift from the lodge, then the member was not "of good standing." And if the family gets a $10 gift, then the member was almost certainly not "meritorious," but if the gift is of some other amount (say, $5 or $20), then he was.