Changing the Motion of The Maker

[Guest Ricardo]

In the month of Feb 2015 I made a motion for to attend a seminar being held in June 2015 was not able to attend the March 2015 meeting (away at class) when I return a week later i found out that the motion i made had amended to include another member to attend the seminar which our club can not really afford. My question is was the amendment proper without the maker of the motion present? and if not what should have happen and how can it be corrected.

[Edgar Guest]

My question is was the amendment proper without the maker of the motion present?

Well, it wasn't improper because you weren't present. Once a motion is before the assembly it's out of the hands of the maker. It belongs to the assembly to do with as it sees fit.

 

And even if the motion was adopted exactly as you made it, the assembly can change it at a later meeting by way of a motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted (ASPA). It requires either a two-thirds vote, the affirmative vote of a majority of the (entire) membership, or, with previous notice, just a majority vote.

 

You could always try amending it back to the way it was.

[Richard Brown]

I agree with Edgar, but it's hard to tell exactly what happened from your post.  Was your motion adopted in February and then amended in March?  Was it never voted on in February but postponed to March?

 

It is definitely not necessary for you to be present or even to know what is going.... at last no more so than any other member.  The fact that you are the one who initially made the motion becomes irrelevant once it is in the hands of the assembly.

[Guest Ricardo]

Thanks guys for responding so quickly the motion was adopted in Feb and changed in March. I don't know if it was amended or reconsider so which would have been so which one would have been out of order, reconsidered or amended?

[Guest Guest]

I made a little type o

[Richard Brown]

Thanks guys for responding so quickly the motion was adopted in Feb and changed in March. I don't know if it was amended or reconsider so which would have been so which one would have been out of order, reconsidered or amended?

A motion to reconsider would have to have been made before the end of the February meeting.  In March, only a motion to amend or rescind something previously adopted would have been in order, even though it may have been improperly referred to as a motion to reconsider.

 

A motion to rescind or amend something previously adopted, as Mr. Guest said above, requires a two thirds vote or a vote of a majority of the entire membership if made without previous notice.  If previous notice of the motion was given (either at the February meeting or by mail or whatever form your organization uses for giving such notice), it could be adopted by a majority vote.

 

However, even if it failed to receive the vote required, it is too late to do anything about it now.  A  point of order as to the outcome of a vote must be timely.... must be made immediately after the vote or it is deemed waived.

[Josh Martin]

In the month of Feb 2015 I made a motion for to attend a seminar being held in June 2015 was not able to attend the March 2015 meeting (away at class) when I return a week later i found out that the motion i made had amended to include another member to attend the seminar which our club can not really afford. My question is was the amendment proper without the maker of the motion present? and if not what should have happen and how can it be corrected.

 

The fact that you were not present has nothing to do with whether the amendment was proper. The amendment seems to have been proper based upon the limited facts presented, and even if it was not, it is probably too late to do anything about it.

 

Thanks guys for responding so quickly the motion was adopted in Feb and changed in March. I don't know if it was amended or reconsider so which would have been so which one would have been out of order, reconsidered or amended?

 

Reconsider would have been out of order, but it doesn't matter at this point. For most violations, a Point of Order must be raised at the time. You can't complain a month later because of a technicality. There are some violations which are so severe that they constitute a continuing breach, and in those cases a Point of Order can be raised at any time. That does not, however, appear to be the case here.

 

If we had more facts about what actually happened, we might be able to provide further assistance, but I wouldn't get your hopes up. I suspect the only way to "correct" this issue at this time will be to make another motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted. I would make sure to give previous notice of this motion so that only a majority vote will be required for adoption.

[Gary Novosielski]

In the month of Feb 2015 I made a motion for to attend a seminar being held in June 2015 was not able to attend the March 2015 meeting (away at class) when I return a week later i found out that the motion i made had amended to include another member to attend the seminar which our club can not really afford. My question is was the amendment proper without the maker of the motion present? and if not what should have happen and how can it be corrected.

 

Once a motion has been seconded and placed before the assembly for action, the mover loses all ownership rights to the motion.  It then belongs to the assembly as a whole. 

 

So, the answer is:

1. Yes it was apparently proper.  (Unless there's more you haven't revealed.)
2. N/A

[Guest Ricardo]

OK guys let me try and explain my issue a little better because I want to discuss this matter at our next meeting. Our organization on meets once a month.  In the month of February 2015 I address the Chair and requested to make a motion (my request was granted) I made a motion requesting to attend a seminar in the month of June 2015 it was seconded and adopted by the membership. I was out of town for the March 2015 and another member of this organization address the Chair and requested to make a motion allowing her to attend the same seminar and it was seconded. The Chair corrected her by tell the membership that this was a reconsideration to the motion made in February’s meeting and call for the question on the reconsideration ( now mind you that this was a yea or nay so I don’t know if it was a two thirds or a majority because there was not a hand/head count) so my question again was this proper and what should have been done and can contest this motion?  

OK guys let me try and explain my issue a little better because I want to discuss this matter at our next meeting. Our organization on meets once a month.  In the month of February 2015 I address the Chair and requested to make a motion (my request was granted) I made a motion requesting to attend a seminar in the month of June 2015 it was seconded and adopted by the membership. I was out of town for the March 2015 and another member of this organization address the Chair and requested to make a motion allowing her to attend the same seminar and it was seconded. The Chair corrected her by tell the membership that this was a reconsideration to the motion made in February’s meeting and call for the question on the reconsideration ( now mind you that this was a yea or nay so I don’t know if it was a two thirds or a majority because there was not a hand/head count) so my question again was this proper and what should have been done and can contest this motion?  Thank you again for all your help guys

[Edgar Guest]

The Chair corrected her by tell the membership that this was a reconsideration to the motion made in February’s meeting and call for the question on the reconsideration

It was not a motion to Reconsider. And unless the previous motion said that you would be the only person authorized to attend the seminar, I see nothing wrong with a new motion authorizing someone else to go too.

[Bruce Lages]

The chair's statement that this was a reconsideration of the motion made in February was certainly improper since the time limit for a motion to reconsider had almost certainly expired.

 

I believe the new motion made in March could have been handled as a completely separate motion from the one in February, or, if no funds had yet been expended in payment for attendance at the upcoming seminar, it could also have been handled as a motion to amend something previously adopted, in that the second request was added to your original request.

 

In any event, there's nothing to be done now.

[Richard Brown]

First, the motion at the March meeting was not a reconsideration.  A motion to reconsider can be moved only at the meeting at which the motion to be reconsidered was adopted (with a few exceptions, none of which appear to be applicable here).  So, the chair was wrong in calling it a motion to reconsider, but that error is moot now because no timely point of order was raised.

 

Without knowing a little more, I'm not able to say whether this was actually a motion to rescind/amend something previously adopted or a separate stand alone motion.  Was the intent to have her go to the meeting in addition to you, so that you would both be attending?  Or was the intent to have her replace you so that she, not you, will be going?  

 

If the latter, then it was a motion to amend (or rescind) something  previously adopted and would require a two-thirds vote or the vote of a majority of the entire membership for its adoption (unless previous notice of the motion was made, in which case a majority vote would be sufficient).

 

But if it was a separate motion to have her go to the seminar without having any effect on the previous motion to allow you to go, then it was probably an ordinary new main motion which could be adopted by a majority vote.  It's adoption had no effect on the previous motion to allow you to go.  I do see, however, how some might consider it to be, in essence, a motion to amend something previously adopted.  If the new motion included both of your names, I would say it was an amendment of the prior motion.  But, if only her name was mentioned in the new motion, and if its adoption has no effect on you going to the seminar, then I would say that it was a new, stand alone motion that could be adopted by majority vote.

 

Edited to add:  If the effect of the motion was to have her replace you as the person to attend the seminar, then it conflicts with a main motion previously adopted and could be considered a continuing breach subject to a point of order at any time.  That depends on some details.  However, if it can be shown that it passed by the necessary vote to amend or rescind something previously adopted (see  above...  probably a two-thirds vote), it would still be valid.  I believe the burden of proving that it received the necessary vote would be upon those who claim that it was validly adopted.  See page 251 re adopting a motion that conflicts with something previously adopted and still in effect.

[Josh Martin]

try I was out of town for the March 2015 and another member of this organization address the Chair and requested to make a motion allowing her to attend the same seminar and it was seconded. The Chair corrected her by tell the membership that this was a reconsideration to the motion made in February’s meeting and call for the question on the reconsideration ( now mind you that this was a yea or nay so I don’t know if it was a two thirds or a majority because there was not a hand/head count) so my question again was this proper and what should have been done and can contest this motion?

Based on these additional facts, it seems to me that what occurred was entirely proper, except that the chair was mistaken when he stated that "this was a reconsideration to the motion made in February's meeting." It seems to me that it was simply a new main motion. A motion to send this person to the seminar, so far as I can tell, did not conflict with the motion adopted to send you to the seminar. Therefore, it could be handled as a new main motion rather than a motion to Rescind or to Amend Something Previously Adopted.

A new main motion and a motion to Reconsider both require only a majority vote for adoption, so the chair's error does not seem to have made any significant difference. So there was nothing that could or should have been done to contest this motion, although someone should have perhaps educated the chair that this was not a motion to Reconsider.

If you wish to prevent this member from being sent to the seminar, the proper course of action at this time would be to make a motion to Rescind the motion adopted at the March meeting to send her to the seminar. I would advise providing previous notice of your intent to make this motion, so that a majority vote will be sufficient to adopt it.

[Guest Ricardo]

I want to thank you guys for your help in this matter