Out of Order

[Guest Brent Makher]

Hello, 

 

I would appreciate any assistance with this question.

 

The agenda for an upcoming AGM has been published with a motion that could potentially be ruled out of order. If the legal team does in fact determine the motion is illegal what are the options of the Chair? I understand the procedure with the Chair being able to rule a motion out of order during a meeting. However, I also understand that a simple majority (50+1) appeal can overturn the Chair's ruling. If this happens, and an illegal motion (as determined through contract agreements) were to be passed what are the options of the organization?

 

Further to this, if this motion was determined to be out of order prior to the agenda being submitted, is the Chair permitted to withhold this item from the agenda? 

 

Finally, is there any opportunities for the Chair to rule a motion out of order following the agenda being published, but prior to the meeting being called to order?

 

Thank you in advance for your help!

 

 

[jstackpo]

Gotta get a little pedantic here, or precise, exactly....

 

We don't deal in "legal" here, but what did your legal staff assert? 

 

That the motion would itself be "illegal" (better to say "improper") in the parliamentary context in which it is to be offered?

 

or

 

The actions proposed in the motion would be in violation of some (real) law (not including "procedural rules" found in the law - p.111)  that could get the association in trouble if the actions were carried out?

 

Tell us that and we can proceed from there.

 

But to cover a couple of your questions:  The chair cannot rule the motion out of order (or remove it from the published agenda) before the meeting, unless your bylaws give him that power.

[Hieu H. Huynh]

... I also understand that a simple majority (50+1)...

 

Majority is "more than half".

[Hieu H. Huynh]

Also see FAQ#14 regarding agendas.

[George Mervosh]

 

But to cover a couple of your questions:  The chair cannot rule the motion out of order (or remove it from the published agenda) before the meeting, unless your bylaws give him that power.

 

Correct.  A large body might have some of its members vetting out motions prior to a member making them, and providing advice to the maker, but until it's actually offered as a motion it can't be ruled out of order and who knows what the parliamentary situation will be when it is offered?  

[Guest Brent Makher]

Hello, thank you for the help.

 

To clarify, the motion would be in violation of contractual agreements. The actions of this motion could indeed have ramifications for the organization if carried out. 

 

I appreciate your clarification on my other questions. Your answers make complete sense. 

 

Thank you again,

 

Brent Makher

[Josh Martin]

To clarify, the motion would be in violation of contractual agreements. The actions of this motion could indeed have ramifications for the organization if carried out.

Well, that still leaves the waters a bit muddy.

The fact that a motion proposes an action which conflicts with a non-procedural rule in applicable law does not, in and of itself, make the motion out of order (although in most circumstances it will mean that adopting the motion would be a very bad idea).

In such a case, the proper course of action is for the more reasonable members of the assembly to persuade the others that violating the law is a bad idea. The legal team's advice on this matter would, one hopes, be considered highly persuasive. If the assembly does not listen, well, majority rules, even when the majority's decision is ill-advised. The assembly could try to Rescind the motion at a future meeting.

It is quite possible, however, that the motion will also violate some procedural rule. If the proposed motion would conflict with a motion previously adopted by the assembly, and it is not properly made as a motion to Rescind or to Amend Something Previously Adopted, then the motion is out of order.

If it is properly made as a motion to Rescind or to Amend Something Previously Adopted, then the motion is in order, and we're back to persuading people to be reasonable. One bit of good news, however, is that these motions require a bit more for adoption - a 2/3 vote, a vote of a majority of the entire membership, or a majority vote with previous notice.