Past-president... Ex-Officio?

[Guest Jim]

Hi, I was just trying to interpret our "Vague" by-laws.  We have a position of Past-President which is not an elected position in our By-laws. We always treated as a position to facititate transition of afairs to newly elected President.  We always treated the position as a Non-Voting position.  But the By-laws sort of don't distinguish this position from a regular elected member of the board who definately has voting privileges. Does this past-president fit into the FAQ item #2 of Ex-Officio? Usually over the years, the past president has only come to meetings for first few meeting following elections, and then they figure their duties are done.  Is there an accepted practice here that we can refer to to figure this out? We would probably change our our by-laws eventually? Our By-laws do state that baord member missing three consecutive meetings without excuse can be removed, but that is not quite fitting for a Past-President designation.

Thanks,

Jim

[jstackpo]

Hmm...  "sort of" rules are best left to the association to do the interpretation.  We work with RONR here, and leave interpretation to the organizations (mostly) - see p. 588.

 

Here's something to think about when you contemplate amending your bylaws...

 

IPP is a Bad Idea:

And here's some reasons why the position is a bad idea:

In my personal view, setting up an "official" Immediate Past President (IPP) position is not a particularly good idea.  The most telling argument is the real possibility of a close and bitter race for the presidency, with the current president running (for a second term) against an "outsider".  And the outsider - the "reform candidate", perhaps - wins but is still stuck with the thorn of the IPP on the Board in a position to snipe at the new president.  And perhaps attempt to undermine the new president's plans.  Not to mention vote against them.

If the erstwhile president is a "good guy" the new president can (usually, depending on the bylaws) appoint him to a pre-existing committee - or even have him chair one, which might put him on the Board - as the new president sees fit.  That way the IPP's experience and value can be put to good use, when needed, without the danger of setting up an adversarial situation which would require a bylaw amendment to get out of.

Here's some more reasons

1) The President resigns and wants nothing to do with the organization.
 
2) The President simply doesn't run for election again because he's had enough, and never shows up at a board meeting.
 
3) The President is booted out of office for being incompetent, or for something more nefarious.
 
4) The President dies.
 
5) The President resigns and moves (wants to help but isn't around).

6) Even worse is the bylaw assignment of the IPP to chair a committee - such as nominating.  Then he dies/quits/leaves town, &c.  You are then stuck with an unfillable (by definition) vacancy.

Note that except for item 4, the IPP may well be part of the quorum requirement for meetings, even though he never shows up.

[Tom Coronite]

If your bylaws make the (immediate?) past president a member of the board, he's a member.  If your bylaws don't strip him of any membership rights (such as voting) he likely retains those rights.  If all you want is the former president to attend a few meetings, why not just invite him as a guest?

 

We would probably change our our by-laws eventually?

 

 

That's probably a good idea.

[Richard Brown]

I agree with the others.  Your bylaws either make the IPP a member of the board or they don't.  EXACTLY what do they say?  Not a paraphrase or summary, but exactly what do they say about the IPP being on the board?    It may be that he isn'r really a member of the board and all of this is moot.

[Guest Jim]

Thank you very much for this information.  Very Helpful.  Item 1) above is the situation that applies to us.

 

Our bylaws list the Past-President in the list with heading "Board of Directors" right between President and Vice-President.

The responsibilities listed for Past-President are:

"The Past President Shall:

- assume Ad Hoc duties at the discretion of the board.

- be nominating Committee Director"

 

Looks like this would better be served by inviting Past President to a few meetings and removing from By-Laws.

Thanks again.

 

 

[Guest Tova]

Our bylaws state that the Immediate Past President is a member of the executive.  April, 2015 our president was elected by acclammation then 1 month later he resigned.  Now its October and this person is wanting to speak at our executive meeting as "past President" however has not attended any exec meetings or given due notice that he is unable to attend. Because of the fact that he resigned in May after holding President position for 1 month, would he still be Past President? Like I said he has not attended meetings, his role as outlined in our bylaws is to support the president and serve in an advisory capacity for the benefit of the members of the executive.

[Weldon Merritt]

Our bylaws state that the Immediate Past President is a member of the executive.  April, 2015 our president was elected by acclammation then 1 month later he resigned.  Now its October and this person is wanting to speak at our executive meeting as "past President" however has not attended any exec meetings or given due notice that he is unable to attend. Because of the fact that he resigned in May after holding President position for 1 month, would he still be Past President? Like I said he has not attended meetings, his role as outlined in our bylaws is to support the president and serve in an advisory capacity for the benefit of the members of the executive.

 

The IPP is a member of the executive what (executive board; executive committee)? In any event, by simple English, the IPP is the most recent person to have held the office of president before the current president. So yes, the person who resigned after one month is now your IPP; and if your bylaws (unwisely) make him a member of the board, then a member of the board he is, like it or not. That is among the many reason you will not find much support here for giving the IPP any official position. (See Dr. Stackpole's list in Post #2 for more reasons.)

[Guest Tova]

That makes sense, so if he has not attended at least 3 consecutive meetings and not given due notice, he has abandoned his postion and would no longer be past president?

[Weldon Merritt]

That makes sense, so if he has not attended at least 3 consecutive meetings and not given due notice, he has abandoned his postion and would no longer be past president?

 

No. He is still the IPP, and will remain the IPP until the current president leaves office and becomes the new IPP. Whether missing three consecutive meetings would strip the IPP of his position on the board is another question, and depends on what your bylaws actually say about that position.

[Guest Tova]

Our policy states that "executive members missing 3 consecutive meetings without giving due notice will be deemed to have abandoned their position" 

He has not attended any meetings siince May and has ot given notice

[Guest Nancy N.]

Our policy states that "executive members missing 3 consecutive meetings without giving due notice will be deemed to have abandoned their position" 

He has not attended any meetings siince May and has ot given notice

 

Well, now.  That's a conundrum.  Your bylaws seem to say that this person (let's call him the April president, "April" for short, though that's usually a girl's name) is deemed to have abandoned his position.  (That's not exactly the same as being removed from the position, but let Mr. Merritt worry about that.)  Yet, your bylaws still say that the immediate past president is a member of the executive ("executive board", &c.?), and April is still the IPP, so he's still a member.

 

Tsk tsk.

Well.  Remember that your organization interprets its own bylaws, where there is ambiguity (or inconsistency, like here).  Mind the pages Dr. Stackpole pointed you to.

 

Oh, and for the future:  this website forum works best if you post your question as a new topic ("thread"), although you may see a previous one that seems relevant.

[Richard Brown]

Our policy states that "executive members missing 3 consecutive meetings without giving due notice will be deemed to have abandoned their position" 

He has not attended any meetings siince May and has ot given notice

It seems to me that this is a matter of interpreting your bylaws, which is something only your organization can do.  We cannot do that for you here.  btw, this is one of the many reasons that most of us who are regulars on this forum do not like the idea of any kind of automatic position for the Immediate Past President (or any other past president).  If he or she is a terrific member and can help, then put him or her on a committee.  Make him chairman of a committee if you want to.  But, don't make it automatic.

[Josh Martin]

Our policy states that "executive members missing 3 consecutive meetings without giving due notice will be deemed to have abandoned their position"

He has not attended any meetings siince May and has ot given notice

It seems to me that your society will need to carefully review this rule, the exact wording in the bylaws relating to the Immediate Past President, and any other rules in your bylaws which may be relevant, and then determine how to resolve the conflict. See RONR, 11th ed., pgs. 588-591 for some Principles of Interpretation.

In the long run, just amend the bylaws to get rid of the IPP position so you don't have to deal with these sorts of problems.

[g40]

It is, in my strong opinion, much better to prevent a "problem" with an Immediate Past President on the Board and/or Executive Committee than to try to solve a problem when the "problem" happens. Last year I became a Board member of an organization whose Bylaws made the IPP a member of the Executive Committee. I asked several questions - and got several answers to whether (the bylaws did not say) the IPP still needed to be a Board member to be on the Executive Committee. I found out that, in some past years - sometimes the IPP (if not a Board member) insisted on being on the Executive Committee and sometimes the IPP did not. Fortunately, perhaps prompted by my raising the issue, when there were some significant other changes to the Bylaws proposed last year, the IPP on the Executive Committee was removed. I used many of the reasons for not giving the IPP automatically membership in anything to have the position removed.