Guest Deb Pereira Posted October 8, 2015 at 02:36 AM Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 at 02:36 AM President resigns, and becomes Pres ex officio (unfavorable) , BOD voted ex pres off board along with voting rights. Does last pres ex officio go back to this position? Resigning pres didn't complete term. Thanks for help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted October 8, 2015 at 02:59 AM Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 at 02:59 AM President resigns, and becomes Pres ex officio (unfavorable) , BOD voted ex pres off board along with voting rights. Does last pres ex officio go back to this position? Resigning pres didn't complete term. Thanks for help. If I understand the facts correctly, the President automatically becomes "President Ex Officio" upon leaving office, a position most societies call "Immediate Past President." Your group has called it something different, apparently under the mistaken belief that "ex officio" means "ex officer." (See FAQ #2 for what "ex officio" actually means.) If this is all correct, then it seems to me that this person remains the incorrectly named "President Ex Offico" until the current President leaves office. Even if he is removed from his position on the board, replacing him simply is not possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hieu H. Huynh Posted October 8, 2015 at 03:16 AM Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 at 03:16 AM President resigns, and becomes Pres ex officio (unfavorable) , BOD voted ex pres off board along with voting rights. Does last pres ex officio go back to this position? Resigning pres didn't complete term. Thanks for help. Any details regarding a position of "Pres ex officio" would have to be found in your bylaws. It will ultimately be up to your organization to interpret your bylaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted October 8, 2015 at 04:54 AM Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 at 04:54 AM Assuming Josh is correct in his understanding of what you folks mean by "President ex officio", it is apparent to me that the ONLY way to get him/her off the Board is to amend the bylaw that places him/her on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted October 8, 2015 at 01:53 PM Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 at 01:53 PM Assuming Josh is correct in his understanding of what you folks mean by "President ex officio", it is apparent to me that the ONLY way to get him/her off the Board is to amend the bylaw that places him/her on the board.Could the assembly suspend the member's rights in connection with board meetings, through proper disciplinary proceedings? This would mostly accomplish the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Curious Posted October 8, 2015 at 02:57 PM Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 at 02:57 PM That was my question. If the bylaws provide for the removal of members, can an ex officio member be removed using the same procedure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted October 8, 2015 at 06:00 PM Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 at 06:00 PM That was my question. If the bylaws provide for the removal of members, can an ex officio member be removed using the same procedure?I think this question is misleading, because the Immediate Past President is not the usual sort of "ex officio" member. This term generally applies when someone automatically holds an office by virtue of some other office he holds. Under ordinary circumstances, an ex-officio member may only be removed by removing him from the office which grants him the ex-officio status. If the bylaws provided, for instance, that the Treasurer is an ex-officio member of the board, then the only way to remove him from the board is to remove him from his position as Treasurer.The IPP is an unusual situation, because this is not an office someone can be removed from. If Mr. X is the President, and then (for whatever reason) he is no longer the President, then he is the Immediate Past President. As this is simply a historical fact, nothing whatsoever can change this, except for the current President leaving office and becoming the new Immediate Past President. If the bylaws (unwisely) provide that the Immediate Past President is a member of the board, then I concur with Dr. Stackpole that he cannot be removed from the board.It may be possible, however, to adopt a motion suspending the IPP from his rights as a member of the board, which would accomplish mostly the same thing. This could certainly be done for a single meeting. Whether it could be done for a longer period is unclear. Unlike members of the society, RONR does not discuss the possibility of suspending board members or officers (only removing them), but it does not clearly state that this cannot be done either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gödel Fan Posted October 8, 2015 at 07:03 PM Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 at 07:03 PM If there's enough support for it, and the bylaws permit it, the President could resign, then be elected back into office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deb Pereira Posted October 8, 2015 at 07:39 PM Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 at 07:39 PM Ex officio is used incorrectly. Members take it to mean past president. The president resigned making him the past president and still a member of the board, then the BOD voted him off the board along with voting rights. He resigned because we were not letting him make decisions without board approval and was not following the by laws. After being informed of the vote, he asked for his dues back. Now the president before him is stating that she is the IPP and the one who resigned was never IPP because he didn't complete his term. Both are causing a lot of termoil in the group. Your reason for not having an IPP is proving true. Did the Board of Directors have the right to vote him off the board? Is there an IPP now? Hopefully the by laws will be changed. Thank you for all your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gödel Fan Posted October 8, 2015 at 07:50 PM Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 at 07:50 PM Well, a person who is not the immediate past president certainly can't become immediate past president. If you can't immediate past anything if someone was that thing after you but before the current person. Do your bylaws cover all of this? Do the bylaws say the IPP is a board member? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deb Pereira Posted October 8, 2015 at 07:59 PM Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 at 07:59 PM By laws state: The Board shall consist of Executive Officers and Chairs of the Standing Committees. Officers shall be President, Vice President, Secretary, Treasurer, and President ex-officio. They shall constitute the Executive Board. Don't know if it matters but we are a nonprofit group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted October 8, 2015 at 08:28 PM Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 at 08:28 PM Since you have clearly misused the words "ex officio" in your bylaws there is no telling what you might mean. It appears that you have a custom (p. 19) that "President ex officio" is equivalent to IPP. So change the custom my adopting a motion defining what you want it to mean. Then amend the bylaws to eliminate "and President ex-officio" from your bylaws. That second step solves your problem. (And the first might too, if you do it right.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted October 8, 2015 at 10:19 PM Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 at 10:19 PM If there's enough support for it, and the bylaws permit it, the President could resign, then be elected back into office.Which would accomplish what, exactly?Ex officio is used incorrectly. Members take it to mean past president. The president resigned making him the past president and still a member of the board, then the BOD voted him off the board along with voting rights. He resigned because we were not letting him make decisions without board approval and was not following the by laws. After being informed of the vote, he asked for his dues back. Now the president before him is stating that she is the IPP and the one who resigned was never IPP because he didn't complete his term. Both are causing a lot of termoil in the group. Your reason for not having an IPP is proving true. Did the Board of Directors have the right to vote him off the board? Is there an IPP now? Hopefully the by laws will be changed. Thank you for all your help.None of the facts presented here have changed my previous opinions. No, the IPP cannot be removed from the board, but he could possibly be suspended from his rights of membership in connection with the board. There is an IPP - the person who was the president immediately prior to the previous president. The facts that he resigned or that he did not complete his term are immaterial (unless your bylaws so provide). That won't change until the current President leaves office and becomes the new IPP.By laws state: The Board shall consist of Executive Officers and Chairs of the Standing Committees. Officers shall be President, Vice President, Secretary, Treasurer, and President ex-officio. They shall constitute the Executive Board. Don't know if it matters but we are a nonprofit group.Do the bylaws say anything else regarding the "President Ex-Officio?"Since you have clearly misused the words "ex officio" in your bylaws there is no telling what you might mean. It appears that you have a custom (p. 19) that "President ex officio" is equivalent to IPP. So change the custom my adopting a motion defining what you want it to mean. Then amend the bylaws to eliminate "and President ex-officio" from your bylaws. That second step solves your problem. (And the first might too, if you do it right.)While the term "President Ex Officio" is certainly nonsense, it seems quite clear that the organization is, and has been, under the impression that it means "Immediate Past President." I don't think it's appropriate for the organization to suddenly pretend that it means something else simply because it is convenient to do so. I agree that, in the long run, the position should simply be removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deb Pereira Posted October 9, 2015 at 01:11 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 at 01:11 AM By laws state : A Board menber shall be dropped for excess absences from the board. A Board member may be removed for other reasons by a three-fourths vote of the remaining directors. No other mention of the pres ex officio except as an officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Curious Posted October 9, 2015 at 02:03 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 at 02:03 AM RONR provides for the removal of regularly elected officers (p.653). Since your President Ex-Officio was not elected, it's really up to your group to figure out what it takes to kick him off the board and how your custom rules may apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gödel Fan Posted October 9, 2015 at 03:50 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 at 03:50 AM >Which would accomplish what, exactly? (Sorry, can't quite figure out how to use the quote feature without quoting the whole post.) X is the IPP, and Y is the current President. Y resigns, then fills the vacancy. Now Y is also the IPP, and X has no position on the board (assuming the IPP is on the board.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmuel Gerber Posted October 9, 2015 at 03:57 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 at 03:57 AM By laws state: The Board shall consist of Executive Officers and Chairs of the Standing Committees. Officers shall be President, Vice President, Secretary, Treasurer, and President ex-officio. They shall constitute the Executive Board. Don't know if it matters but we are a nonprofit group. By laws state : A Board menber shall be dropped for excess absences from the board. A Board member may be removed for other reasons by a three-fourths vote of the remaining directors. No other mention of the pres ex officio except as an officer. Seems pretty straightforward to me. The "President ex-officio" (whatever that means) is a board member, and "a board member may be removed" by the given procedure.I don't think it matters how he got there in the first place, he's outta there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted October 9, 2015 at 01:41 PM Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 at 01:41 PM >Which would accomplish what, exactly? (Sorry, can't quite figure out how to use the quote feature without quoting the whole post.)X is the IPP, and Y is the current President. Y resigns, then fills the vacancy. Now Y is also the IPP, and X has no position on the board (assuming the IPP is on the board.) I don't think someone can be President and Immediate Past President at the same time, but what you're missing here is that the VP (let's call him Z) automatically becomes President in the event of a vacancy. If he's on board with the "musical chairs" strategy, I guess this plan actually works - Y resigns, Z becomes President and Y becomes IPP, Y is elected VP, Z resigns, and Y becomes President and Z becomes IPP, Z is elected VP.Seems pretty straightforward to me. The "President ex-officio" (whatever that means) is a board member, and "a board member may be removed" by the given procedure.I don't think it matters how he got there in the first place, he's outta there.Would your opinion be any different if the bylaws said "Immediate Past President" instead, which is apparently what "President Ex Officio" means in this society? And even if the IPP can be removed, surely no one else can hold that position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted October 9, 2015 at 08:07 PM Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 at 08:07 PM Seems pretty straightforward to me. The "President ex-officio" (whatever that means) is a board member, and "a board member may be removed" by the given procedure.I don't think it matters how he got there in the first place, he's outta there.I agree. You said what I have been thinking for the two days I have been following this thread. Based on the language in the bylaws in this particular case, I believe the "President ex-officio" can be removed from the board just like any other board member. It may not change his "president ex officio" status, but it removes him from the board. I understand the argument of those who say he can't be removed, which might be the type situation we are most familiar with, but I believe that in this case he can be removed. As to whether or how the society can replace him on the board, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted October 9, 2015 at 08:24 PM Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 at 08:24 PM Just amend the bylaws to remove the entire "President ex-officio" (board) position from your association. Arguments ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmuel Gerber Posted October 12, 2015 at 04:16 PM Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 at 04:16 PM Seems pretty straightforward to me. The "President ex-officio" (whatever that means) is a board member, and "a board member may be removed" by the given procedure.I don't think it matters how he got there in the first place, he's outta there. Would your opinion be any different if the bylaws said "Immediate Past President" instead, which is apparently what "President Ex Officio" means in this society? And even if the IPP can be removed, surely no one else can hold that position? My opinion would be the same. As Mr. Brown points out, removal from the board wouldn't necessarily remove him from the office of "Immediate Past President" or "President Ex Officio," if those are offices of the organization, but if the bylaws spell out how to remove a board member without making an exception for someone in this position, I don't see why an exception should be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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