Chair Not Adding Item to Board Meeting Agenda

[captenaj]

Hello all,

In my Florida HOA we have a five member board. A board member wants to add an item to the board meeting agenda but the board chair refuses to do so. I (as the parliamentarian) said that at the end of a meeting, but before adjournment, the board member should state that she would like to add an item (giving the details) to the next meeting's agenda.  Since we are governed by statute, notice must be given of agenda items and the board member cannot have an item added to a board agenda at the same meeting, even with three of the five members supporting her.

Did I advise the member correctly on adding an item to the board meeting agenda? Is there another way to do so? Thanks for your help.

[Hieu H. Huynh]

Questions involving statutes should be referred to an attorney.

[captenaj]

Thanks for your response. This isn't a question about statutes - I referenced statute to indicate that the item cannot be added to that meeting's agenda at the beginning of a meeting. Notice must be given.

I am wondering what Robert's says about forcing a board chair to add an item to a board meeting agenda when they refuse to do so. Is a correct procedure to have a board member state at the end of a board meeting that they would like to add an item (giving the details) to the agenda of the next board meeting? Or is there another way to do so.

Another thought I had was to have the board member petition the general membership and have 20% of the general membership request the item be added to the board agenda. But it seems less labor intensive and frankly less adversarial to state at the end of one meeting that an item will be added to the next meeting's agenda.

Or does the board member have to get a majority of the board to vote to add an item to the board agenda if the chair does not want to do so?

Thanks again. 

[Hieu H. Huynh]

See FAQ #14.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

40 minutes ago, captenaj said:

I (as the parliamentarian) said that

at the end of a meeting, but before adjournment, the board member should state that she would like to add an item (giving the details) to the next meeting's agenda.

. . .

Q. Did I advise the member correctly on adding an item to the board meeting agenda?

No, if you asking what Robert's Rules of Order says on the subject.

See Frequently Asked Question 14.

   • You need not wait until the end of the meeting to bring up the new issue.

   • A member is free to add to the current agenda at any time, subject to vote.

***

Since you have a state law saying otherwise, then I wonder for what purpose you are asking your question.

[captenaj]

40 minutes ago, Hieu H. Huynh said:

See FAQ #14.

Again, thanks for the response. I saw that in the FAQ but it seems this is referring to member's meetings, not to board meetings. Is the procedure the same for board meetings?

[Hieu H. Huynh]

Yes.

[Dan Honemann]

You say that "Since we are governed by statute, notice must be given of agenda items and the board member cannot have an item added to a board agenda at the same meeting, even with three of the five members supporting her."

Then you say "This isn't a question about statutes ..."

 

[captenaj]

Daniel, that is correct. The question isn't about statute. The issue of law was raised so respondents here wouldn't think that the board member could add an item to the board agenda at the same meeting. Notice must be given.  That is why Kim's response doesn't apply to this situation (but thank you, Kim, for taking the time to respond):

38 minutes ago, Kim Goldsworthy said:

No, if you asking what Robert's Rules of Order says on the subject.

See Frequently Asked Question 14.

   • You need not wait until the end of the meeting to bring up the new issue.

   • A member is free to add to the current agenda at any time, subject to vote.

***

FAQ #14 states "It is common for the president to prepare a proposed agenda, but that becomes binding only if it is adopted by the full assembly...." Because of the word "assembly" I thought this applied only to the full assembly, not to a small board. Hieu, is there documentation in RONR that this applies to board meetings and not just to the full assembly? I ask simply so I have something to back-up any statement that I make to our board chair.

Thank you all for your help.

 

 

[Dan Honemann]

You say that, because of some statute, notice must be given to add an item to the agenda for the next meeting, and ask what must be done to comply with this statutory requirement.

The first response was correct. Ask a lawyer.

[captenaj]

Oh, for the want of a parenthesis !

Let me see if I can make this more clear:

"In my Florida HOA we have a five member board. A board member wants to add an item to the board meeting agenda but the board chair refuses to do so. I (as the parliamentarian) said that at the end of a meeting, but before adjournment, the board member should state that she would like to add an item (giving the details) to the next meeting's agenda. (Since we are governed by statute, notice must be given of agenda items and the board member cannot have an item added to a board agenda at the same meeting, even with three of the five members supporting her. So please realize that I know RONR states the board member doesn't have to wait until the next meeting but in this case the question is how does the question get added to the following board meeting agenda in the face of an uncooperative chair.)

"Did I advice the member correctly on adding an item to the board meeting agenda? Is there another way to do so?"

As always, thank you for your kind help.

[Dan Honemann]

The answer remains the same. Ask a lawyer what must be done in order to comply with the statutory requirement regarding notice.

[Bruce Lages]

What RONR does say on this subject is that the assembly (board, general membership - whichever body is meeting) adopts the agenda - by majority vote - if they choose to have an agenda. So a single member - chair or otherwise - does not have veto power over what goes on the agenda.

As all previous responders have stressed, statute takes precedence over anything RONR has to say.

[captenaj]

Daniel, the question is not about giving notice or about statute. Please forget I ever mentioned it.

Bruce, that is the most helpful thing anyone has said on this topic - that the rules apply to whichever body is meeting. Hieu, thank you for your similar reply.

[Peggy R]

Captenaj...Are you asking what to do when a member wants to add an agenda item at a present meeting, that would appear on the next month's agenda, but the Chair won't allow the member to request an item be added presently in order to fulfill the statutes requirement of notice?  

[Dan Honemann]

9 minutes ago, captenaj said:

Daniel, the question is not about giving notice or about statute. Please forget I ever mentioned it.

Bruce, that is the most helpful thing anyone has said on this topic - that the rules apply to whichever body is meeting. Hieu, thank you for your similar reply.

So no notice is required?

[captenaj]

Hi Peggy,

I'm not asking about statute or about notice at all. Let's just say that a BOARD member wants to add something to a future BOARD meeting agenda. This board member has gone to the board chair between meetings and requested the addition, and the board chair says she will not add it. The item is within the scope of the board. The board chair just doesn't want to discuss it and is not giving a satisfactory reason as to why.

I advised the board member to state at the end of the meeting that she would like the item on next board meeting's agenda.

I think my confusion was I thought there were different rules for board meetings and for assembly meetings. It appears that in terms of adding items to the agenda, RONR does not make a distinction.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

2 minutes ago, captenaj said:

I think my confusion was I thought there were different rules for board meetings and for assembly meetings.

It appears that in terms of adding items to the agenda, RONR does not make a distinction.

Right.

The technical term 'assembly' refers to the body which is meeting. An assembly could be a board meeting or could be a general membership meeting.

RONR is using one word ("assembly") to cover conventions, general memberships, councils, boards, etc.

[Dan Honemann]

If no notice is required by statute, RONR certainly does not require that any notice be given. As far as the rules in RONR are concerned, any member may move to have an item added to the agenda for a meeting when the agenda is pending for adoption at the outset of the meeting. No previous notice is required.

[Richard Brown]

captenaj,  I understand why you feel you are in a catch-22.  I might have a couple of suggestions, but in the meantime, I'm curious about the following:

How, when and by whom are your agendas normally prepared?   Is there a rule as to preparing the agenda?

How do board members normally get something on the agenda?  Does the chairman exercise complete control over the agenda?

How and when is the agenda made available to the general membership?

btw, I strongly suspect that someone, somewhere is mis-interpreting the statute.  But, as others have said, you need to consult with an attorney about the meaning of a statute.  We do not give legal advice in this forum.  The statute clearly does have a bearing on this if it is the reason being given by the chair for refusing to add anything to an agenda.  For us to say that his position is unfounded would amount to us giving you legal advice....  advice on a statute we haven't even seen.  All we can say in that regard is what several of us have said already, namely that RONR provides that an agenda can be amended by majority vote before it is adopted and by a two thirds vote after it is adopted.  I will add that you can always appeal from the ruling of the chair.  It takes a majority vote to overturn the ruling of the chair.

 

[captenaj]

Richard, if a board member wants to add something to our board meeting agenda, they go to the chair and say please add it. The chair types up the agenda and 48 hours before the board meeting the agenda is posted on a bulletin board. The bylaws of the association are silent on adding items to the agenda.

The only reason the words "statute" and "notice" came up was I didn't want people to say that an item can be added to an agenda at the same meeting. What we have been doing in our association is giving at least 48 hours notice of any item to be discussed at a meeting. If this is because of statute or because of custom, the point is moot. Let's just say board members want to give 48 hours warning that an item is going to be discussed.

I cannot say that the chair has exercised complete control over the agenda in the past because it has never come up that the chair wouldn't add something to the agenda. If the chair has a legitimate reason for not adding something, she is not sharing it. Other board members have come to me asking for advice on how, according to RONR, a board member can get something added to the agenda when the chair refuses to do so.

My confusion was I thought there were different rules pertaining to board meeting agendas and assembly meeting agendas. It appears that RONR does not make that distinction. This discussion has been helpful in that regard.

[Joshua Katz]

Setting aside everything else, it seems to me that a person could move, at a meeting, that item X be on the agenda for the next meeting.  We have parliamentary motions that accomplish this, so why wouldn't we be able to do it directly?  Or, the body can vote to direct the chair to include X when drafting the agenda.

At the next meeting, when the agenda is up for adoption, a point of order could then be raised if it's not there.

[Hieu H. Huynh]

I suppose if notice is required to consider an item of business, notice could be given at the preceding meeting.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

19 hours ago, Hieu H. Huynh said:

I suppose if notice is required to consider an item of business,

notice could be given at the preceding meeting.

No. -- That is not the convention which states use in their sunshine laws, such as homeowners associations.

Where there is a sunshine law, the notice cannot be given orally in the preceding meeting (as RONR allows).

The agenda (actually, a raw list of subject matters, not the agenda itself) must be published/distributed to the general public, or to the general membership.

An oral announcement does not satisfy the sunshine law.

[Guest Gary c Tesser]

On 9/12/2016 at 3:33 PM, Richard Brown said:

...  I might have a couple of suggestions, ...

So what's keeping you is what?  (aside from the likelihood that captenaj is gone forever, unless he or she has another question)

On 9/12/2016 at 5:03 PM, Godelfan said:

Setting aside everything else, it seems to me that a person could move, at a meeting, that item X be on the agenda for the next meeting.  We have parliamentary motions that accomplish this, so why wouldn't we be able to do it directly?  Or, the body can vote to direct the chair to include X when drafting the agenda....

Spot on.

On 9/12/2016 at 5:03 PM, Godelfan said:

... At the next meeting, when the agenda is up for adoption, a point of order could then be raised if it's not there.

Cold comfort, the point of order, given the HOA's binding custom, or whatever it is, that requires 48 hours' notice, isn't it?

(Although, I'll say it's better than impotent stewing.  And it could lead to a reprimand, or, Good Hevins, a Resolution of Censure.)