Vote to add new member to the board

[SHOOTER]

Perspective board members to our board (A )are nominated by another organizations board (B). At a recent meeting of board (B) a new board member to our organization (A) was to be considered for nomination.

At the meeting of board (B), the name was introduced.  A motion was made for a vote and seconded. All but one of the board members of board (B) voted in affirmative. One of the board  members voted in the negative. As soon as the negative vote was cast the person that had originally introduced the name for consideration and made the motion for the call of the vote,      withdrew the name from consideration without a motion or a second and the vote failed.

Is this the proper procedure?

To me once a voted is called and seconded and the vote is taken, it cannot be withdrawn.

 

 

 

[Richard Brown]

What do you mean when you said a member " made the motion for the call of the vote"?

Did  the chair ever announce that the original  motion passed?

What vote failed?

We really need more information.

 

[Dan Honemann]

2 minutes ago, Richard Brown said:

What do you mean when you said a member " made the motion for the call of the vote"?

Did  the chair ever announce that the original  motion passed?

What vote failed?

We really need more information.

 

Actually, "we" don't need any more information to say that what happened was not proper procedure. 

[SHOOTER]

When the chair asked for a motion for a vote, the person that introduced the name made the motion which was seconded.

The chair called for a vote. All but one voted in the affirmative. One voted in the negative. No abstentions.  When the negative vote was cast the person that originally introduced the name for consideration and also made the original motion for a vote declared he was withdrawing the name and that in his opinion if the vote wasn't 100% the person shouldn't be nominated,

No, the chair never announced the vote passed.

The vote of the board members to add the name for consideration to our board therefore failed, for lack of a better term.

Hope that clarifies things a bit.

[Hieu H. Huynh]

The chair should have announced the results of the vote and that it was too late to withdraw the motion.

[Joshua Katz]

The easy part:  a motion cannot be withdrawn at that point, and a nomination is essentially a motion to fill a blank.  

Harder part:  what now?  As far as I can see, the person didn't enter into any position upon the result of this vote, and, in any case, the result was never announced.  Therefore, while it was too late to withdraw the nomination, it's also too late now to raise a point of order as there's no continuing breach.

[Richard Brown]

14 minutes ago, Godelfan said:

Harder part:  what now?  As far as I can see, the person didn't enter into any position upon the result of this vote, and, in any case, the result was never announced.  

I don't think we know enough about exactly what happened and what was said for us to be able to say whether the person was actually selected to serve on "Board A". 

I agree with Mr. Honemann and the others that what transpired was not correct, but I don't think we know exactly what did transpire or whether the nominee was in fact selected.

Godelfan, I can't tell which position you are taking. Was the nominee elected or not?

If Group A and/or Group B decide that no one has yet been selected for Group A's board, the original nominee can always be nominated again.

Edited to add: upon rereading godelfan 's post, it seems he is taking the position that no one has been elected.

[Joshua Katz]

1 minute ago, Richard Brown said:

I don't think we know enough about exactly what happened and what was said for us to be able to say whether the person was actually selected to serve on "Board A". 

I agree with Mr. Honemann and the others that what transpired was not correct, but I don't think we know exactly what did transpire or whether the nominee was in fact selected.

Godelfan, I can't tell which position you are taking. Was the nominee elected or not?

If Group A and/or Group B decide that no one has yet been selected for Group A's board, the original nominee can always be nominated again.

It seems to me that it's clear the person hasn't been selected to serve on board A.  The original post said that board B nominates people, but presumably there's some additional step involved.  Anyway, the only announced result was that the person didn't get elected, and no point of order was raised.  Yes, the procedure was incorrect, but the end result is that the person, as far as I can see, was not elected.  I would agree that the person can be voted on again at the next meeting of B.  I don't think a point of order can be raised at the next meeting of B and be timely, nor do I think A can proceed with whatever the next steps would be in the meantime.

[Richard Brown]

1 hour ago, Godelfan said:

It seems to me that it's clear the person hasn't been selected to serve on board A.  The original post said that board B nominates people, but presumably there's some additional step involved.  Anyway, the only announced result was that the person didn't get elected, and no point of order was raised.  Yes, the procedure was incorrect, but the end result is that the person, as far as I can see, was not elected.  I would agree that the person can be voted on again at the next meeting of B.  I don't think a point of order can be raised at the next meeting of B and be timely, nor do I think A can proceed with whatever the next steps would be in the meantime.

Actually, according to Shooter's posts, the chair never made any declaration one way or the other as to the outcome of the vote or whether he ruled on the original movers motion/request/statement that he was withdrawing the nomination.  It is Shooter's conclusion that the vote failed after everything was said and done.  The chair never ruled one way or the other on either the original nomination or on the member's request/motion/statement that he was withdrawing his nomination (at least based on what we've been told so far).

We all know that the original motion actually carried and the chair should have so stated and should not have allowed the nomination to be withdrawn.  Unfortunately, it did not happen that way.

Question:  Would it make any difference if the chair HAD declared that the original motion was adopted?

 

[Joshua Katz]

16 minutes ago, Richard Brown said:

Actually, according to Shooter's posts, the chair never made any declaration one way or the other as to the outcome of the vote or whether he ruled on the original movers motion/request/statement that he was withdrawing the nomination.  It is Shooter's conclusion that the vote failed after everything was said and done.  The chair never ruled one way or the other on either the original nomination or on the member's request/motion/statement that he was withdrawing his nomination (at least based on what we've been told so far).

We all know that the original motion actually carried and the chair should have so stated and should not have allowed the nomination to be withdrawn.  Unfortunately, it did not happen that way.

Question:  Would it make any difference if the chair HAD declared that the original motion was adopted?

 

Possibly.  If the chair's declaring the result had the effect of putting a person into office, then the subsequent actions would have had the effect of removing them from office, and thus form a continuing breach.

I don't see what "the vote failed" can mean other than the chair declared that the vote failed.  What do you imagine happened at that point?  In any event, if nothing was declared, then the person was never declared elected.

[Hieu H. Huynh]

I suppose if the chair had declared the motion adopted, it could have been reconsidered.

[SHOOTER]

The  chair never declared the motion failed nor did he declare the motion passed. It was left hanging,

The person that withdrew the name, never made a motion nor was it ever seconded. 

He just stated he was with drawing his support and that if the vote wasn't unanimous he didn't think they should be nominated.

It died at that point and there was no more discussion.

 

Thanks for your input. 

 

 

[SHOOTER]

An update.

I talked to the Chair of the meeting at length. He informed me that he did declare the vote/motion as being passed and signed the form that is the be passed on to our board.  There was a lot on talking going on at that point and I didn't hear him nor do I think anyone else did except maybe one other person.

Am I correct in assuming the vote/motion therefore passed even though I don't have the form?

Also since there was never a motion, discussion, or vote on the withdrawal  it is null.

[Richard Brown]

59 minutes ago, SHOOTER said:

An update.

I talked to the Chair of the meeting at length. He informed me that he did declare the vote/motion as being passed and signed the form that is the be passed on to our board.  There was a lot on talking going on at that point and I didn't hear him nor do I think anyone else did except maybe one other person.

Am I correct in assuming the vote/motion therefore passed even though I don't have the form?

Also since there was never a motion, discussion, or vote on the withdrawal  it is null.

Based on your updated information, it is my opinion that the motion did indeed pass and that the attempt by the member who made the nomination to withdraw it was merely an attempt to do so on his part and was not successful.  I think the selection of the nominee to be a candidate for the board of Organization A as declared by the chair is valid (assuming the chair did in fact declare the motion adopted).

Caveat:  The ultimate outcome of this depends in large part... maybe completely... on the position taken by the chairman and what the approved minutes say.  If the secretary prepares draft minutes that say the motion did not pass, you have a problem.  Someone can move to correct the minutes to say that the motion DID pass.  On the other hand, if the draft minutes say that the motion did pass, a member can move to correct the minutes to say that it did NOT pass.  Whichever way it goes, a majority vote decides the issue.  All board members present when the minutes are up for approval get to vote on corrections regardless of whether they were present at the meeting where the disputed action took place.

You may have to await the next meeting for a resolution of this matter. 

One final caveat:  None of us were there.  This appears to be a matter of "he said - she said".   We can only tell you what the rules in RONR are.  If the chair declared that the motion was adopted, and said nothing indicating that he was allowing the original mover to withdraw his motion, then in my opinion the motion was adopted and the attempt to withdraw the nomination was not successful.

[SHOOTER]

The chair of Board "B"  dropped of the recommendation form this evening. The recommendation letter from Board "B" is dated and signed by the chair.

 

[jstackpo]

Appears to me that the matter is now settled.   However exactly WHAT is settled?   

If I read all this correctly, Board (B) has now officially recommended, or nominated, "Bill" as a candidate to fill the position on Board (A).   But does an actual election now have to take place on order to put Bill on Board A?  What group votes in that election?  Be sure that whoever chairs that election meeting does things right and states exactly what the motion being voted on ("To elect Bill") is, and states the outcome of the election clearly when the time comes.

If my understanding is wrong, please try again and tell us the exact words (should be in the minutes) of the motion that was adopted at Board (B)'s meeting by the vote of almost everybody to one.

 

[SHOOTER]

jstackpo. 

If I read all this correctly, Board (B) has now officially recommended, or nominated, "Bill" as a candidate to fill the position on Board (A).Yes   But does an actual election now have to take place on order to put Bill on Board A?Yes  What group votes in that election? Board A Be sure that whoever chairs that election meeting does things right and states exactly what the motion being voted on ("To elect Bill") is, and states the outcome of the election clearly when the time comes.Done

If my understanding is wrong, please try again and tell us the exact words (should be in the minutes) of the motion that was adopted at Board (B)'s meeting by the vote of almost everybody to one.