Minutes

[Andy Travis]

I understand that the minutes are a record of what was done and not what was said. We have a code of ethics bylaw. If someone says something that violates something in the code of ethics, is it acceptable to make a brief note in the minutes what a member said and then state that that violates the code of ethics bylaw. 

[jstackpo]

I don't know of any exceptions to the "... not what was said" rule for ethics comments.  Indeed, one would think that possible accusations like that would be the last thing to put in minutes.

If a formal point of order was raised in re the "ethics comment", that that would go in the minutes (p. 470) but I'm not clear on how that might be phrased.

[Hieu H. Huynh]

1 hour ago, Andy Travis said:

I understand that the minutes are a record of what was done and not what was said. We have a code of ethics bylaw. If someone says something that violates something in the code of ethics, is it acceptable to make a brief note in the minutes what a member said and then state that that violates the code of ethics bylaw. 

Perhaps it may be helpful to read "Breaches of order by members in a meeting" in RONR 11th ed., pp. 645-648.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

4 hours ago, Andy Travis said:

I understand that the minutes are a record of what was done and not what was said.

We have a code of ethics bylaw.

Q. If someone says something that violates something in the code of ethics,

is it acceptable to make a brief note in the minutes what a member said and then state that that violates the code of ethics bylaw?

I am having a hard time imagining a scenario where this would be fitting and proper.

So my first impression would be to answer, "No."

Q. Could you give me an example?

(How could a non-motion, which violates no rule of debate and decorum of Robert's Rules of Order, trigger an entry in one's minutes?)

(What secretary has that much power? How cluttered do you want your minutes to be?)

[Andy Travis]

A member left the meeting so as not to violate the code of ethics bylaw (specifically a conflict of interest as a decision was being made about her suite). The rest of the members voted while she was out of the room. When the chairman went to let the member back in the room he told the member how everyone voted. By doing so the chairman violated the code of ethics bylaw. 

I believe a note should be made in the minutes that the chairman contravened the bylaws by divulging how each member voted. 

[Andy Travis]

A second example is, the chairman just saying that a particular member seconds a motion and that the motion is adopted.

The chairman cannot assign a seconder or just say that the motion is adopted without asking the rest of the members, "All in favor, all opposed?" 

If you can tell me if this example explicitly violates something in RONR that would be helpful. Otherwise this again I believe violates the code of ethics bylaw. 

[jstackpo]

8 minutes ago, Andy Travis said:

A member left the meeting so as not to violate the code of ethics bylaw (specifically a conflict of interest as a decision was being made about her suite). The rest of the members voted while she was out of the room. When the chairman went to let the member back in the room he told the member how everyone voted. By doing so the chairman violated the code of ethics bylaw. 

I believe a note should be made in the minutes that the chairman contravened the bylaws by divulging how each member voted. 

Well, you could move to censure the chairman for whatever his violation was.  That would get something in the minutes, even if the motions to censure didn't pass.

[jstackpo]

2 minutes ago, Andy Travis said:

A second example is, the chairman just saying that a particular member seconds a motion and that the motion is adopted.

The chairman cannot assign a seconder or just say that the motion is adopted without asking the rest of the members, "All in favor, all opposed?" 

If you can tell me if this example explicitly violates something in RONR that would be helpful. Otherwise this again I believe violates the code of ethics bylaw. 

This strikes me as a parliamentary error rather than something as serious as an "ethics violation".  Are you sure the "ethics" provision in your bylaws is that broad in scope.

Someone should have raised a point of order just as soon as the presiding officer skipped over the vote on the motion in question.  Nothing unethical on the face of it, just poor procedure.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

In general.

You keep mentioning that  "X violates the bylaws".
Yet you have not quoted the rule itself.

Since we don't interpret bylaws, and since we don't know what your bylaws say, then we cannot judge how wrong these two actions are.

If you find a violation of a bylaw has occurred, then the solution is
(a.) TO RAISE A POINT OF ORDER;
and not
(b.) TO MAKE AN ENTRY INTO THE MINUTES.

You are seeking the wrong solution to your problem.

 

[Gary Novosielski]

If the vote was not held by ballot, I fail to see how the chair violated any rule by divulging how members voted.   If it was intended that the votes of members would not be divulged, someone should have moved to hold a ballot vote.

If it's being alleged that this is some sort of breach of decorum, then that would presumably be handled immediately during the meeting, and appropriate discipline dispensed.  If a motion to censure or otherwise discipline the chair was made, this would be recorded in the minutes.

If the board took no action as a result of this alleged breach, then there's nothing to record.