Could not hear motion that was supposedly made

[Guest Dan Garvin]

I am the secretary of our organization

I wrote the minutes for the last meeting and sent them out to those present

The Chair and the Vice-Chair said they were incorrect as a motion had been made by an individual, I did not hear the motion and I have asked all present, including the supposed author, for the exact wording of the motion, some so far don't even remember that the motion was made. There was much pandemonium because a previous motion that was withdrawn had uncovered the concern.

How shall I write this in the minutes?

Dan

[Dan Honemann]

29 minutes ago, Guest Dan Garvin said:

I am the secretary of our organization

I wrote the minutes for the last meeting and sent them out to those present

The Chair and the Vice-Chair said they were incorrect as a motion had been made by an individual, I did not hear the motion and I have asked all present, including the supposed author, for the exact wording of the motion, some so far don't even remember that the motion was made. There was much pandemonium because a previous motion that was withdrawn had uncovered the concern.

How shall I write this in the minutes?

Dan

If you have no record of or recollection of the motion having been made and disposed of in some fashion, then I think you should include no record of it in your draft. When your draft of the minutes is presented for approval at the next meeting, the minutes can be corrected in any way the assembly itself decides, by majority vote or by unanimous consent, to correct them before approval.

[DJGarvin]

The Chair and the Vice-Chair have said my minutes were incorrect and that the motion was made, but no one else had confirmed what the motion said or was even made.

I favor the non-entry and have it voted on at the next regular meeting of the organization.

Thank you.

[g40]

52 minutes ago, Guest Dan Garvin said:

I am the secretary of our organization

I wrote the minutes for the last meeting and sent them out to those present

The Chair and the Vice-Chair said they were incorrect as a motion had been made by an individual, I did not hear the motion and I have asked all present, including the supposed author, for the exact wording of the motion, some so far don't even remember that the motion was made. There was much pandemonium because a previous motion that was withdrawn had uncovered the concern.

How shall I write this in the minutes?

Dan

Did they claim that the motion passed? Even if you did not hear the motion, wouldn't you have been aware of the discussion/debate and the vote?

[DJGarvin]

g40 - I did not hear any debate, except for the previous motion that was withdrawn, that started the Brouhaha nor I was not aware of the vote.

[Guest Nancy N.]

Mr. Garvin, be mindful that (I hope I get this right) that the proper (and eminently sensible, if you ask me -- and not just me) procedure for making the minutes official is that they be approved by the assembly; and that this process (or procedure, I forget which is which) entails (1) the secretary reading the minutes (of the previous meeting, which presumably he or someone hopefully almost as well-qualified, and maybe looking like a fisherman, like you and, to a lesser extent, the other Dan) to the assembly; (2) the chair asking the assembly if there are any corrections proposed; (3) corrections being made (and, if disputed, being voted on); and, without further corrections, the chair's declaring the minutes approved.

That's it.  Your job does not entail getting any flack.

(It occurs to me that I'm not sure whether it's kosher or not to amend proposed corrections to the minutes, like in case someone says that the magically-appearing motion was in fact made, and, properly, proposes that the minutes be corrected by including that motion; giving what he thinks is the exact wording; and then someone proposes to correct that wording, as an amendment.  And then I'm at sea about how the minutes should record this kerfuffel, if at all.)

But mind you also, that there should not be any brouhaha or pandemonium:  a well-behaved, decorous, civilized assembly will not shamefully indulge in such infantilism (although good luck, Dan, in finding one), and a competent presiding officer will nick hints of it in the bud (although good luck, Dan, in finding one).

[g40]

4 hours ago, DJGarvin said:

g40 - I did not hear any debate, except for the previous motion that was withdrawn, that started the Brouhaha nor I was not aware of the vote.

So, "allegedly", you did not hear this "alleged" motion, nor a second (if applicable), nor debate, nor a vote. "Missing" (or not hearing) any of these things seems to support your contention (and your draft minutes) that there was no motion.

Having been at a very contentious Civic Association about contested minutes, note that it is not in order for anyone to just "disapprove" the minutes or just contest the draft minutes you present. Someone would need to offer a "correction" - that specifically offers the exact text of what that person states was done.

[Richard Brown]

And then the assembly (the group that is meeting) decides whether to adopt the proposed correction. It requires a majority vote if this occurs when the minutes are up for approval.

To respond to a question by guest Nancy, it would be appropriate to propose an amendment to the proposed correction the same as can be done with any other amendable motion. 

[DJGarvin]

Thank all of you

It will be interesting, I will post the final outcome, it will be a couple of weeks as the discussion by the organization will not happen until then

[George Mervosh]

On 11/25/2016 at 5:32 PM, Guest Nancy N. said:

Mr. Garvin, be mindful that (I hope I get this right) that the proper (and eminently sensible, if you ask me -- and not just me) procedure for making the minutes official is that they be approved by the assembly; and that this process (or procedure, I forget which is which) entails (1) the secretary reading the minutes (of the previous meeting, which presumably he or someone hopefully almost as well-qualified, and maybe looking like a fisherman, like you and, to a lesser extent, the other Dan) to the assembly; (2) the chair asking the assembly if there are any corrections proposed; (3) corrections being made (and, if disputed, being voted on); and, without further corrections, the chair's declaring the minutes approved.

Which other Dan?  Our other Dan?  What's our other other Dan, chopped liver? 

[Rev Ed]

I'd say that as you are the Secretary, do not include anything that you do not remember anything to do with a motion (i.e. the motion being made, a seconder if required, debate, and a vote) then do not include the motion in your draft copy of the Minutes.  When you present the Minutes then it is up to the Chairman and Vice Chairman to offer a correction and to put it to a vote.  Normally amendments to the Minutes are accepted by unanimous consent (I have been a Secretary a few times and admit that I normally appreciate corrections), but as you do not recall this motion, you can object to the amendment, thus triggering a vote. 

However, just be mindful - if the Chairman and Vice Chairman can convince enough members to agree, you have to include the motion if the amendment passes.

[Richard Brown]

I agree with Rev Ed but would add that any.mrmber, not just the chair and vice chair, can offer corrections (amendments).