Is there a comprehensive list of motions that RONR requires have prior notice?

[mjhmjh]

Including motions that require prior notice under some circumstances, such as amending the special rules of order.

[Gary Novosielski]

I think the most concise form would be in the tinted pages, Table II., under the column Vote Required for Adoption

[mjhmjh]

6 minutes ago, Gary Novosielski said:

I think the most concise form would be in the tinted pages, Table II., under the column Vote Required for Adoption

Thank you. Should prior notice should be defined in an organization's bylaws? If so, would "announced at the previous general meeting and distributed to the membership with the draft meeting minutes by the secretary" be appropriate?

[Kim Goldsworthy]

1 hour ago, mjhmjh said:

Q1.) Should prior notice should be defined in an organization's bylaws?

Q2.) If so, would "announced at the previous general meeting and distributed to the membership with the draft meeting minutes by the secretary" be appropriate?

A1.) Why would you duplicate what is already clearly written in the parliamentary authority? For what purpose would be the redundancy?

A2.) Your proposal turns the single-action of Robert's Rules of Order, into a triple-action series of steps. -- Why the extra steps? Why the extra paper? Why the extra parties involved?

To what end is the stretching-out of the process?

[mjhmjh]

1 hour ago, Kim Goldsworthy said:

A1.) Why would you duplicate what is already clearly written in the parliamentary authority? For what purpose would be the redundancy?

A2.) Your proposal turns the single-action of Robert's Rules of Order, into a triple-action series of steps. -- Why the extra steps? Why the extra paper? Why the extra parties involved?

To what end is the stretching-out of the process?

When you put it like that, it does sound pointless. Could you point to the part of RONR that defines prior notice?

[jstackpo]

Page 121ff.

[Gary c Tesser]

7 hours ago, mjhmjh said:

Could you point to the part of RONR that defines prior notice?

mj (if I may presume to be so intimate), RONR's index is astonishingly comprehensive and spectacularly useful.  I may tell you an illustrative story if I feel like typing later.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 2/13/2017 at 10:30 PM, mjhmjh said:

Thank you. Should prior notice should be defined in an organization's bylaws? If so, would "announced at the previous general meeting and distributed to the membership with the draft meeting minutes by the secretary" be appropriate?

Is there some part of your bylaws that that requires the secretary to distribute draft minutes?   If not, Is it your expectation that the language above would create that requirement?

What if the next meeting is a special meeting, at which the secretary would presumably not be distributing draft minutes (unless you forgot to include that exception in your bylaws.  Or perhaps forgot to define special meetings at all?

Was there something wrong with the previous notice requirements in RONR that you think needs fixing?

[Joshua Katz]

On 2/13/2017 at 10:55 PM, Kim Goldsworthy said:

A1.) Why would you duplicate what is already clearly written in the parliamentary authority? For what purpose would be the redundancy?

A2.) Your proposal turns the single-action of Robert's Rules of Order, into a triple-action series of steps. -- Why the extra steps? Why the extra paper? Why the extra parties involved?

These two answers seem, to me, to conflict.  It can't be redundant if it changes the rule, and it does - in particular, turning an 'or' into an 'and.'  

[mjhmjh]

14 hours ago, Gary Novosielski said:

Is there some part of your bylaws that that requires the secretary to distribute draft minutes?   If not, Is it your expectation that the language above would create that requirement?

What if the next meeting is a special meeting, at which the secretary would presumably not be distributing draft minutes (unless you forgot to include that exception in your bylaws.  Or perhaps forgot to define special meetings at all?

Was there something wrong with the previous notice requirements in RONR that you think needs fixing?

I'm actually drafting the bylaws right now.

Should I not mention notice at all and leave this entirely to RONR? I just want to make sure that every member knows when notice is given at a meeting, even if they're not at that particular meeting.

[Dan Honemann]

31 minutes ago, mjhmjh said:

I'm actually drafting the bylaws right now.

If this is so, I suggest that you read what is said on pages 565-591 very carefully, and then let us know what, if anything, you find there that you do not understand.

 

[mjhmjh]

5 hours ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

If this is so, I suggest that you read what is said on pages 565-591 very carefully, and then let us know what, if anything, you find there that you do not understand.

 

I have been doing that so far. They'e been a great resource! 

While I know that for motions requiring notice RONR says declaring one's intent at the previous meeting qualifies as notice, I am confused as to how members not in attendance become aware of this notice. Does RONR set forth a method, or should I specify one?

Also, what qualifies as "notice" (pg. 575 lines 6-7) regarding officer vacancies? Do I need to define that too?

[Dan Honemann]

12 hours ago, mjhmjh said:

I have been doing that so far. They'e been a great resource! 

While I know that for motions requiring notice RONR says declaring one's intent at the previous meeting qualifies as notice, I am confused as to how members not in attendance become aware of this notice. Does RONR set forth a method, or should I specify one?

Also, what qualifies as "notice" (pg. 575 lines 6-7) regarding officer vacancies? Do I need to define that too?

There is no requirement in RONR that members not in attendance at a meeting be advised concerning anything that happened at that meeting, and it may be that the first time they learn of it will be when the minutes of that meeting are presented for approval. In other words, the rules in RONR requiring previous notice of motions do not protect those absentees, they protect a different group of absentees.  

If you want your bylaws to ensure that all members receive prior notice of proposals to amend them, you may want to have your bylaws provide that notice of any proposed bylaw amendment must be included in the call of the meeting at which the amendment will be introduced.

I think that the "notice" referred to in that sentence on page 575, lines 7-9, probably means "previous notice" as defined on pages 121-124, but nothing in RONR specifically says so. If previous notice as defined on pages 121-125 is given, such notice will certainly suffice. If some other entirely reasonable method of providing notice is given to all members, I'd be reluctant to argue that the election is invalid.

I should mention that "previous notice" is referred to in this connection on page 445, lines 31-33, and in the first footnote on page 654.

Edited February 16, 2017 at 01:26 PM by Daniel H. Honemann
Added the last sentence.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

13 hours ago, mjhmjh said:

Does RONR set forth a method, or should I specify one?

Also, what qualifies as "notice" (pg. 575 lines 6-7) regarding officer vacancies? Do I need to define that too?

See page 121 and following.

Quote

Previous Notice of Motions

The term previous notice (or notice), as applied to neces-
sary conditions for the adoption of certain motions, has a
particular meaning in parliamentary law. A requirement of
previous notice means that announcement that the motion
will be introduced—indicating its exact content as described    
below—must be included in the call of the meeting (p. 4) at
which the motion will be brought up, or, as a permissible
alternative, if no more than a quarterly time interval (see
pp. 89–90) will have elapsed since the preceding meeting, the
announcement must be made at the preceding meeting. The    
call of a meeting is generally sent to all members a reasonable
time in advance, which may be prescribed in the bylaws. In
organizations that meet less often than at quarterly time in-
tervals (see pp. 89–90), or that meet as a convention of del-
egates, the bylaws should require the secretary to issue a call.    

[. . .]

Instead of being given at a meeting, a notice can also be    
sent to every member with the call of the meeting at which
the matter is to come up for action, except where the rules of
the organization provide otherwise. In such a case, the mem-
ber desiring to give the notice writes to the secretary alone,
requesting that the notice be sent with the call of the next
 meeting; and the secretary should then do this at the expense
of the organization.